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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Let the Brits give up their rebate, the French renogotiate the CAP that benefits them and thereby the poorer nations of the EU will benefit more, why is Chirac so against that "solidarity."

Seriously tho, this is an illusion, and a little unfair to boot.

Some seem to think the EU is in practice somehow about socialistic spreading of the goodies. It simply isn't. It's a business and economic venture indeed for the benefit of the whole, but this doesn't mean countries are suddenly no longer self-interested. (Do you typically enter a business deal for the purposes of making money to give away?) And like it or not, the EU was France's baby.

When the club agreed to begin admitting smaller fry, it was on the specific proviso that they would NOT be entitled to CAP-type goodies until a certain period of time had elapsed, dependent on the individual country and their economic performance/dedication to reform (which is to say their degree of "westernization." The EU is and was also intended to be a political weapon to be hung like the sword of Damokles over the heads of club-hopefuls -- to its benefit it has been instrumental in speeding the progress of e.g., the former Soviet bloc countries).

The original 12 hold considerable clout; some even have the power to summarialy refuse membership to others in said club.

So, complaining that the CAP should be scrapped and/or benefits handed down to e.g., Poland is naive and ignores the above realities (arguably, this thinking goes, Poland and a host of others are already being subsidized: they have lower relative taxes, will be attracting corporate/labour because of EU membership, and then balancing the books/deficits with EU money out of German, French and Dutch pockets).

I'm not defending France's actions, but neither should they be talked about within the context of "being against...solidarity." That's a low-blow and just misunderstands the realities of the powers of the original club members.

Cheers,
-Noble

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Originally posted by TheNobleEu the EU was France's baby. When the club agreed to begin admitting smaller fry, it was on the specific proviso that they would NOT be entitled to CAP-type goodies until a certain period of time had elapsed, dependent on the individual country and their economic performance/dedication to reform (which is to say their degree of "westernization." The EU is and was also intended to be a political weapon to be hung like the sword of Damokles over the heads of club-hopefuls -- to its benefit it has been instrumental in speeding the progress of e.g., the former Soviet bloc countries). The original 12 hold considerable clout; some even have the power to summarialy refuse membership to others in said club. I'm not defending France's actions, but neither should they be talked about within the context of "being against...solidarity." That's a low-blow and just misunderstands the realities of the powers of the original club members. Cheers, -Noble

Solidarity were the words of Jacque Chirac in attacking the British rebate before the EU summit began, not my words. If you are true then everything you say here about France and the original members of the EU runs counter to "solidarity" as expressed by Chirac so why should he call on Britain to give up its rebate in the name of solidarity. Who is that money for? You speak of realities of power and then say my statement is a low blow

I find this statement rather ironic from you "Some seem to think the EU is in practice somehow about socialistic spreading of the goodies" Why if that is not the case then we hear the constant French grumblings and fear about an Anglo-Saxon business model instead of the French social model becoming the guide for European Union economics moving forward. Here I am mistaken that the EU was made up of equal members.

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at least blair admits that the rebate has to go and that it doesnt make sense to have it, i only wish france could think the same about CAP..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4114180.stm

You know what's really funny here. The UK and France are so stubborn and self centered that they won't let go of the several billion euro subsidies (less than 1% of their financing) while Germany who gives so much money to the EU budget than both countries doesn't complain at all and the new eastern members which are 10 times poorer than France or UK are willing to tighten their belts in order to save the EU budget.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 You know what's really funny here. The UK and France are so stubborn and self centered that they won't let go of the several billion euro subsidies (less than 1% of their financing) while Germany who gives so much money to the EU budget than both countries doesn't complain at all and the new eastern members which are 10 times poorer than France or UK are willing to tighten their belts in order to save the EU budget.

You know I was thinking about that while reading the figures for the EU budget, with all the problems Germany is having with unemployment and trying to make cuts in social spending you would figure that grumblings would be coming from there about spending in the EU, but not a word. Germany is by far the biggest net contributor, if Britain gives up its rebate it will become the biggest net contributor to the EU, which is why Tony is apprehensive without changing spending in the EU.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 You know what's really funny here. The UK and France are so stubborn and self centered that they won't let go of the several billion euro subsidies (less than 1% of their financing) while Germany who gives so much money to the EU budget than both countries doesn't complain at all and the new eastern members which are 10 times poorer than France or UK are willing to tighten their belts in order to save the EU budget.

Well if Germany hadn't gone mental and invaded Poland we wouldn't have an EU in the first place so they can keep shtum!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well if Germany hadn't gone mental and invaded Poland we wouldn't have an EU in the first place so they can keep shtum!

Well, if you and France didn't ruin them by imposing such high WW1 reparations, they would have never invaded Poland either.

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yeah im suprised too by germany's very neutral postition on this one... but i guess germany partly is in this economical crises due to its lack of ability to reform, so if they cant reform their own country i guess they cant reform the EU either for the common good...

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, if you and France didn't ruin them by imposing such high WW1 reparations, they would have never invaded Poland either.

Yea well if they hadn't gone mental and started World War One then we wouldn't have had to impose those reparations on them in the first place!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Yea well if they hadn't gone mental and started World War One then we wouldn't have had to impose those reparations on them in the first place!

Hey, they wouldn't have started the war if your pro-serbian wacko didn't kill the austrian emperor!

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Hey, they wouldn't have started the war if your pro-serbian wacko didn't kill the austrian emperor!

Wadda ya mean "your wacko"?!