It's easy for you to talk, but try to understand that suicide bombers are the most difficult/trickiest problem security personnel/police can ever encounter. You're in a huge dilemma: You hardly ever know for sure that the suspicious person is actually about to carry out an attack (unless you can clearly see both his belt and his intention to immediately blow himself up). On the other hand you've got only one way to stop a possible attack, and that is by neutralizing him the way the London policemen did.t
If you guys can come up with the ideal solution to this problem , go on, I'm sure people all aover the world would be interested to hear it.

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

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Originally posted by TranceGiant It's easy for you to talk, but try to understand that suicide bombers are the most difficult/trickiest problem security personnel/police can ever encounter. You're in a huge dilemma: You hardly ever know for sure that the suspicious person is actually about to carry out an attack (unless you can clearly see both his belt and his intention to immediately blow himself up). On the other hand you've got only one way to stop a possible attack, and that is by neutralizing him the way the London policemen did.t If you guys can come up with the ideal solution to this problem , go on, I'm sure people all aover the world would be interested to hear it.

an ideal solution isnt possible, however they could of done it so much better.

how about confronting him as soon as he left his apartment? Letting him to walk into a fucking train station before confronting him has to be the stupidest thing they could of done.

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TA's NFL survival League winner 2006!

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Originally posted by Goashem demon is that marduk in your avatar??? that guy sucks! worst player! anyway, what the hell was the guy thinking? lets run from the cops whats the worst that can happen?!

What? marduk is the best! we shall challenge eachother and once i defeat you, you will cry like a little girl! muahahhahahahahha!

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Originally posted by TranceGiant It's easy for you to talk, but try to understand that suicide bombers are the most difficult/trickiest problem security personnel/police can ever encounter. You're in a huge dilemma: You hardly ever know for sure that the suspicious person is actually about to carry out an attack (unless you can clearly see both his belt and his intention to immediately blow himself up). On the other hand you've got only one way to stop a possible attack, and that is by neutralizing him the way the London policemen did.t If you guys can come up with the ideal solution to this problem , go on, I'm sure people all aover the world would be interested to hear it.

haha big bullshit here.

So from now on ...

Police: Hey i think thats a terrorist.
Partner: Shoot him Jhonny!
Police : How many times Bill?
Partner: My son is just became 5 today so 5 bullets Jhonny!
Police: Here goes!!!
Partner: dang no bomb...oh well let's find more .

5 bullets..come on?? a good terrorist would blown him self instantly if he was in the train..he wouldn't fucking wait till he got pushed down

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Originally posted by Octanesyco Greetings. My name is Casey. You can call me Moose. -Moose

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Michael19 "Heard he worked as an electrican and was going to work. Murdering scum. Should be given life. Ken livingstone has some fuckn cheeck aswell.

Think somebody is using this to have a pop at the English no?!

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metalgearsolid "I don't really blame the London police they are inexperianced with guns and handling terror as well as most countries."

The UK, along with Israel, are probably the most experienced at dealing with terrorists in the world. And I can also assure you that the police that are issued with guns will be as experienced and as well trained as anywhere else in the world

My take on it...

Sorry Michael19 but the police, imo, have done nothing wrong whatsoever. This is an unfortunate accident but I believe the police acted correctly. The target has come out of a house that was under surveilance. Being under surveilance means you are watched, not that you arrest them. They followed him towards the tube station and were suspicious about the clothing he was wearing. As he approached the train station they said "stop police" at which point he ran off into the train station and onto the tube. Now I'm sorry but given everything that's happened you dont run. The police had no choice whatsoever but to suspect him of being a suicide bomber (and running onto the tube would have led them to believe he was about to set it off at that moment) He was shot in the head as that is what the police have been advised to do incase they risk setting the bomb off by shooting at the body (as they would normaly be trained to do in the 'usual' situation)

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Originally posted by occrider Huh? How is my argument that since we don't know all the facts at hand we shouldn't rush to judgement imply that I've been watching too much tv crime dramas? Like I said, it would be nice to have the account from the police officers you know just so we have perspective from all sides.

People "rushed to judgement" thinking that that man was a terrorist and deserved what he got until Scotland Yard said he was not a terrorist and not connected to the bombings and was a regrettable mistake.

Should you continue to trust the same people that shot an innocent man in cold blood to tell you the "truth" or "facts" next time around? I don't think so.

Living in New York I've always had a distrust for the NYPD's tactics. Although there are a few officers that make the barrel spoiled there are some that I know personally that just want to retire and get their pension even if it means they stay a patrolman for 20 years. But when you have a situation regarding the firing of a pistol and a death then right away do you have the spin doctors at work.

There will always be people that question a situation such as that.

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Originally posted by Michael19 ..They thought he was going with the conspirators later on? If they felt he had no bomb and wasnt a threat why shoot him 5 times in the head?

This will never sit right with me no matter what spin Occ tries to say about it.

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Originally posted by Massive84 a good terrorist would blown him self instantly if he was in the train..he wouldn't fucking wait till he got pushed down

If I would disregard eyewitness accounts of the man being dropped to the carriage floor, the amount of gunshots are not justified.

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Originally posted by George Smiley My take on it... Sorry Michael19 but the police, imo, have done nothing wrong whatsoever. This is an unfortunate accident but I believe the police acted correctly. The target has come out of a house that was under surveilance. Being under surveilance means you are watched, not that you arrest them. They followed him towards the tube station and were suspicious about the clothing he was wearing. As he approached the train station they said "stop police" at which point he ran off into the train station and onto the tube. Now I'm sorry but given everything that's happened you dont run. The police had no choice whatsoever but to suspect him of being a suicide bomber (and running onto the tube would have led them to believe he was about to set it off at that moment) He was shot in the head as that is what the police have been advised to do incase they risk setting the bomb off by shooting at the body (as they would normaly be trained to do in the 'usual' situation)

God forbid someone was surveilling you and followed you to the train station and shot you five times on suspicion rather than haul you into the nearest police house. Let alone let you go into a crowded subway.

It would be interesting to know an a map where the guy lives and where he was killed. Did he take a bus to the station? Did he take a cab? Was the underground around the corner from him? Was it a 5 minute walk from him? Just who were the officers that shot him? Why are their identities being held secret?

I have seen homeless people wearing overcoats in the NYC subway all year round and I don't think of them as terrorists, just people that are well prepared for winter since they have no closet to hang their coat in. Besides the AC on the new cars can be way too cold for some.

I notice that some of the terrorists wear baseball caps so I guess we should watch out for those people seeing is that they fit the profile.

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Last edited by ogvh5150 on Jul-25-2005 at 14:10

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 God forbid someone was surveilling you and followed you to the train station and shot you five times on suspicion rather than haul you into the nearest police house. Let alone let you go into a crowded subway.

Tell me what you would have done different? And tell me what would be going through your head if you were one of the policemen?

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I notice that some of the terrorists wear baseball caps so I guess we should watch out for those people seeing is that they fit the profile.

If they were Burberry caps I would imagine that policy might generate quite a bit of public support!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Tell me what you would have done different? And tell me what would be going through your head if you were one of the policemen?

If I were a cop I wouldn't endanger anyones life by letting a suspect enter any crowded area. I would just have picked him up and brought him in for questioning. After hours of interrogating he would have either offered some valuable information or he can just walk since I already would have known he was no threat. People make it seem as if their lives are private and they are not.

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If they were Burberry caps I would imagine that policy might generate quite a bit of public support!

Although my intial statement was hinting at sarcasm the overall idea was that there is a convenience to say the terrorists all have backpacks. If they would have had flowerboxes, cakeboxes, messenger bags, basketballs, surfboards, etc. people would be jumping on the bandwagon no matter how silly the idea.

Shifting the blame:
The police acted to do what they believed necessary to protect the lives of the public. This tragedy has added another victim to the toll of deaths for which the terrorists bear responsibility.
London mayor Ken Livingstone

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Originally posted by TheDemon What? marduk is the best! we shall challenge eachother and once i defeat you, you will cry like a little girl! muahahhahahahahha!

no way man me and paul would own your slow overgrown ass!

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 If I were a cop I wouldn't endanger anyones life by letting a suspect enter any crowded area. I would just have picked him up and brought him in for questioning. After hours of interrogating he would have either offered some valuable information or he can just walk since I already would have known he was no threat. People make it seem as if their lives are private and they are not.

He was under surviellance, it is quite possible he only became a suspect when police told him to stop and he ran off. I fail to see how you would "bring him in for questioning" when he has shown no reason to think he would have gone along with it, he would still have ran away wherever the police challenged him, and therefore would still have been shot