quote:

Originally posted by DC- Downloading music is affecting the entire music industry as a whole, pop and edm. EDM is taking a bigger hit right now because we are not talking about millions of sales but rather hundreds and sometimes thousands. How much does a EDM producer make? In general, 50% of profits. I'll give you a very realistic figure in how much that actually is. Main Press (822 units): 1434 EUR Artwork: 29.95 EUR Mastering: 125 EUR Total Costs: 1588.95 EUR Total Revenue: 822 x 3.25 EUR (This is how much Astral gives per vinyl) = 2671.50 Total Profit: 2671.50 EUR - 1588.95 EUR = 1082.50 EUR Your Share (50%): 541.25 EUR Note that this does not include any remix fees (if there are any). If you have a remix on the flip that happens to cost 500 euro (which is very common nowadays), you end up making next to nothing on the release. So if you think there's a lot of money being made here, think again. Every time you download, you are hurting the artist more so than you can imagine.

540euro for producin' tracks with warez software, not bad ...


no offence btw to those who actually buy their gear

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12" Chase: Vernon - Wonderer (Son Kite Remix)

The X-files - Closure (feat. Moby My Weakness)

quote:

Originally posted by DC- So if you think there's a lot of money being made here, think again. Every time you download, you are hurting the artist more so than you can imagine.

Speaking on the naive side, if the artist is making peanuts to begin with then what difference would it make after someone downloads his or her track? Don't they make music for the love of music? For example when some TA's post their songs on these forums they don't expect any money, but rather constructive criticism to make better tracks in the future. And if an aritst IS doing it for the money, then let's face it, trance music isn't where the "green" is. This further enforces my notion from before in which artists do it for the love of music and not so much for the money.

As far as the recording industry is concerned I am completely inexperienced on how this works. A TA mentioned earlier that downloading mp3's hurts the artists ability to make more records. Does the artist get a brand new studio everytime he/she makes a single? Can't they they use the same studio to release more songs, sarcastically speaking? Also, explain to me this: Since when have there been "suits" (corporate stooges) in trance music? I thought most labels were owned by mostly trance producers themselves?

The majority of people who share and distribute music on p2p networks are never going to buy the music anyway, even if you shutdown the networks, do you really think music sales are going to rise?

They simply dont care about the music they share, they just like listening to it. They're never going to pay for it if you take their networks away from them. Forcing people to pay for music wont work.

At the same time, those who care enough to buy the records and cds, will continue to do so. Everyone on this forum can access illegal music sources if they could be bothered to, but you dont see record sales decreasing rapidly do you? The people who love the music will continue to buy it legally.

People sharing on p2p networks are never going to buy the music in the first place, so you cant force them to.

quote:

Originally posted by DC- Downloading music is affecting the entire music industry as a whole, pop and edm. EDM is taking a bigger hit right now because we are not talking about millions of sales but rather hundreds and sometimes thousands. How much does a EDM producer make? In general, 50% of profits. I'll give you a very realistic figure in how much that actually is. Main Press (822 units): 1434 EUR Artwork: 29.95 EUR Mastering: 125 EUR Total Costs: 1588.95 EUR Total Revenue: 822 x 3.25 EUR (This is how much Astral gives per vinyl) = 2671.50 Total Profit: 2671.50 EUR - 1588.95 EUR = 1082.50 EUR Your Share (50%): 541.25 EUR Note that this does not include any remix fees (if there are any). If you have a remix on the flip that happens to cost 500 euro (which is very common nowadays), you end up making next to nothing on the release. So if you think there's a lot of money being made here, think again. Every time you download, you are hurting the artist more so than you can imagine.

wait, is that 540 euros for just one release?

that's way more money than what i thought, honestly

___________________
sempre contra a corrente do jogo

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 Speaking on the naive side, if the artist is making peanuts to begin with then what difference would it make after someone downloads his or her track? Don't they make music for the love of music? For example when some TA's post their songs on these forums they don't expect any money, but rather constructive criticism to make better tracks in the future. And if an aritst IS doing it for the money, then let's face it, trance music isn't where the "green" is. This further enforces my notion from before in which artists do it for the love of music and not so much for the money. As far as the recording industry is concerned I am completely inexperienced on how this works. A TA mentioned earlier that downloading mp3's hurts the artists ability to make more records. Does the artist get a brand new studio everytime he/she makes a single? Can't they they use the same studio to release more songs, sarcastically speaking? Also, explain to me this: Since when have there been "suits" (corporate stooges) in trance music? I thought most labels were owned by mostly trance producers themselves?

The difference is huge, especially with EDM. If 500 more people decided to purchase the track, it'd make a pretty big difference in the end. Sure we all make music for the love of making music, but you also have to realize that putting music so it can reach the most people costs money. Pressing vinyls costs money, promoting costs money, everything costs money. If you expect the artist to expect nothing in return, that is rather selfish.

You have to understand that if people continue what they're doing it will eventually drive trance in the ground and in the end everybody loses.

quote:

Originally posted by swisstoni_uk The majority of people who share and distribute music on p2p networks are never going to buy the music anyway, even if you shutdown the networks, do you really think music sales are going to rise? They simply dont care about the music they share, they just like listening to it. They're never going to pay for it if you take their networks away from them. Forcing people to pay for music wont work. At the same time, those who care enough to buy the records and cds, will continue to do so. Everyone on this forum can access illegal music sources if they could be bothered to, but you dont see record sales decreasing rapidly do you? The people who love the music will continue to buy it legally. People sharing on p2p networks are never going to buy the music in the first place, so you cant force them to.

The incentive to buy goes out the door pretty quickly when the music can be attained quickly and freely. I know a lot of people who would buy music if they didn't have all these P2P options available but since they do, they don't buy music period.

I'll tell you one thing, record sales are at an all time low, and I have a feeling it will continue to plummet till labels simply have enough and decide to shut down shop because it doesn't make sense running a label that is struggling to push 400 units.

I think most of us have been ignorant downloaders at some point but the ones who actually have capabilities to think and do something else than sit on their thumbs and whistle, are also the ones who have decided to start supporting their fav producers in the best way they can, buy buying/paying for the music they get. I spend several hundred, even thousand(s) of euros a year to buy the music i like and haven't been downloading much of anything for years (i don't like the official digital downloads at all, i prefer to get hold of the actual records with coverart and such, whether it's CD or 12").. except for unsigned "amateur" tracks by friends and fellow tranceaddicts and some freebies here and there. Otherwise i have no problems whatsoever to live without downloading illegal mp3s several gigs a week. I admit i did that back in the day but in the end i got so sick of the "OMG i have a 0-day release OMG i'm 1337" attitude it presented i wanted to stop completely and head straight for the real things instead.

Buying all the music you like isn't cheap and not even close for being easy after all the costs of everyday life.. mortgage, electricity, phone,...you name it but at least for me it's well worth it. I can easily release some budget from clubbin' & drinkin' to be able to buy more music if it gets that far. Sometimes it has but i'm not regretting the choices i've made.

I know illegal downloading isn't truly quite as bad for record sales what the press and big corporations claim it to be. It might seem to affect more to pop culture because the spreading is also much much wider, millions even, while with EDM it's usually in hundreds or maybe some thousands... It all depends on the situation at hand. The smaller label, the bigger possibility for it to go down if not enough sales and vice versa... big labels don't go down as easily if they get sold for example a few hundred records less than planned. Big labels get more money so assumably the artists get paid more as well (note: assumably as i don't really know). EDM in usual isn't anywhere close to pop culture as a profitable business but we all must try to make a living and some of us are lucky enough to do it by doing what we love.

So why do some people deliberately want to prevent some people to get to pay the bills etc.? The money shouldn't be the issue for not paying for the music.. if you're a student you could party less and perhaps get a part-time job so it should help you out to get some money for the music. You would still have enough time to study. I know i did. And eat less junk food and learn to make your own freakin' dinner! Cheaper, better and keeps the hunger away longer.

If the issue is "try before you buy" or something like that, the digital world, internet has legal ways to get to hear the music before you buy. Lots of stores have long enough samples for you to decide if you like the track or not and then there are of course all sorts of DJ and livesets, Essential mixes, ASOT and whatever shows where you can hear the new tracks. If you are the type of person who simply can't be without the latest OMG 1337 0-day mp3s months before the release, look into the mirror and wonder "How old am i again? 4? 5?" You are just like a little kid who can't be without the new toy, for any cost you must have it and why? Just so you would feel yourself better than the kid next door who is poor and doesn't have all the cool toys.

For various reasons on some releases it takes ages for the labels to get them released but personally i have no problem to wait because i don't really listen much to the hyped up radioshows so i don't get the irresistible urge to get the tunes played there... i can deal with it and get them after i've listened them in record store. If you can't, too bad for you. Of course i still somewhat understand the people who live in a country with no good edm community or simply far from everything.. no record stores in decent range.. but online stores have been around for years, if you can dl tracks, you can as easily go to an online store and order the records.

Illegal downloading is a bit like you would be cheating on your better half; might not do any harm now if he/she doesn't know but in the long run the truth will most likely reveal anyway and at least someone's life gets ruined in the process if not your own. Think about it.

I know there are loads of old skool freaks like me out there who truly support the artists by buying all the music they like so a for you! And then naturally for those who don't do that and just massdownload illegal stuff with no regrets, a big to you! Just wanted to say i'm trying to do my part of the support process.

___________________
The walking discography.

quote:

Leslie Nielsen: Doing nothing is very hard to do... you never know when you're finished.

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 wait, is that 540 euros for just one release? that's way more money than what i thought, honestly

It's an insulting figure considering in the Golden era of trance (99/00), an artist could easily earn 10,000 EURO.

quote:

Originally posted by GrimReaper I think most of us have been ignorant downloaders at some point but the ones who actually have capabilities to think and do something else than sit on their thumbs and whistle, are also the ones who have decided to start supporting their fav producers in the best way they can, buy buying/paying for the music they get. I spend several hundred, even thousand(s) of euros a year to buy the music i like and haven't been downloading much of anything for years (i don't like the official digital downloads at all, i prefer to get hold of the actual records with coverart and such, whether it's CD or 12").. except for unsigned "amateur" tracks by friends and fellow tranceaddicts and some freebies here and there. Otherwise i have no problems whatsoever to live without downloading illegal mp3s several gigs a week. I admit i did that back in the day but in the end i got so sick of the "OMG i have a 0-day release OMG i'm 1337" attitude it presented i wanted to stop completely and head straight for the real things instead. Buying all the music you like isn't cheap and not even close for being easy after all the costs of everyday life.. mortgage, electricity, phone,...you name it but at least for me it's well worth it. I can easily release some budget from clubbin' & drinkin' to be able to buy more music if it gets that far. Sometimes it has but i'm not regretting the choices i've made. I know illegal downloading isn't truly quite as bad for record sales what the press and big corporations claim it to be. It might seem to affect more to pop culture because the spreading is also much much wider, millions even, while with EDM it's usually in hundreds or maybe some thousands... It all depends on the situation at hand. The smaller label, the bigger possibility for it to go down if not enough sales and vice versa... big labels don't go down as easily if they get sold for example a few hundred records less than planned. Big labels get more money so assumably the artists get paid more as well (note: assumably as i don't really know). EDM in usual isn't anywhere close to pop culture as a profitable business but we all must try to make a living and some of us are lucky enough to do it by doing what we love. So why do some people deliberately want to prevent some people to get to pay the bills etc.? The money shouldn't be the issue for not paying for the music.. if you're a student you could party less and perhaps get a part-time job so it should help you out to get some money for the music. You would still have enough time to study. I know i did. And eat less junk food and learn to make your own freakin' dinner! Cheaper, better and keeps the hunger away longer. If the issue is "try before you buy" or something like that, the digital world, internet has legal ways to get to hear the music before you buy. Lots of stores have long enough samples for you to decide if you like the track or not and then there are of course all sorts of DJ and livesets, Essential mixes, ASOT and whatever shows where you can hear the new tracks. If you are the type of person who simply can't be without the latest OMG 1337 0-day mp3s months before the release, look into the mirror and wonder "How old am i again? 4? 5?" You are just like a little kid who can't be without the new toy, for any cost you must have it and why? Just so you would feel yourself better than the kid next door who is poor and doesn't have all the cool toys. For various reasons on some releases it takes ages for the labels to get them released but personally i have no problem to wait because i don't really listen much to the hyped up radioshows so i don't get the irresistible urge to get the tunes played there... i can deal with it and get them after i've listened them in record store. If you can't, too bad for you. Of course i still somewhat understand the people who live in a country with no good edm community or simply far from everything.. no record stores in decent range.. but online stores have been around for years, if you can dl tracks, you can as easily go to an online store and order the records. Illegal downloading is a bit like you would be cheating on your better half; might not do any harm now if he/she doesn't know but in the long run the truth will most likely reveal anyway and at least someone's life gets ruined in the process if not your own. Think about it. I know there are loads of old skool freaks like me out there who truly support the artists by buying all the music they like so a for you! And then naturally for those who don't do that and just massdownload illegal stuff with no regrets, a big to you! Just wanted to say i'm trying to do my part of the support process.

What makes things even worse is when you have mp3 sites that sell illegal mp3s (such as *************), considering the figures they sell are at times higher than beatport/audiojelly. Instead of that money going to the people that deserve it, it goes to some schmuck sitting @ home in Russia.

All of this will change though. We're catching up with the technology and its only a matter of time before someone steps in with a secure way of owning and selling music.

I really doubt that the artists make only 500 euro's per release.

Although I will admit that spinning live at clubs is where they make most of their money.

___________________
Founder
www.TranceCritic.com
Seeking More Writers.

quote:

Originally posted by DreamTitan All of this will change though. We're catching up with the technology and its only a matter of time before someone steps in with a secure way of owning and selling music. I really doubt that the artists make only 500 euro's per release. Although I will admit that spinning live at clubs is where they make most of their money.

Right, but you have alot of producers that arent DJs. This is a serious issue, like people mentioned above that people that download music will still download music, but people that really appriciate it, will buy tracks and albums for the support of thier favorite producers or djs.

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Vernato

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij He doesn't consider it to be stealing from an artist because he doesn't take something from him, the artist still has got some original on tape. Even if an artist doesn't want his music to be copied, he still thinks it's okay to get it. The word copyright itself doesn't have any meaning to him because he feels getting a copy is not worth paying for and should be free, because it's not the original.

Heres how I look at it. Sorry if its a repost.

Someone invents something. Anything. It could be the Swiffer for all it matters. Should we be able to walk into Target and take it off the shelf and walk out because its "not the original?" Of course not. We would get arrested. I feel the same applies to music.

I dont know. It just seems pretty obvious to me.

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