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Originally posted by donnybrasco Actually, in the U.S., being pro-gun is considered expressly a CONSERVATIVE trait.

oh wait, where's the drum roll?

*BADAM'CHE!*

Ah, there we go.

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Originally posted by squirrelly You're asking about the entire board? I doubt any one of us could have that answer. Though if you're asking about the PDD, that's a different story. But who are you? Why do you care? WHO SENT YOU HERE?! No really, a lot of new people sprouting up.

I am sent here by myself, in need of some renewed liberal-bashing. My other avenues have either dried up or left me bored...

I didn't expect a real stat...was more curious how the board views itself........because honestly, so far, I think this is one HELLUVA Liberal board! LOL.

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Originally posted by Aquarian oh wait, where's the drum roll? *BADAM'CHE!* Ah, there we go.

????

It was a subtle joke. No one got it. Let's move on folks!

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Originally posted by donnybrasco I am sent here by myself, in need of some renewed liberal-bashing. My other avenues have either dried up or left me bored... I didn't expect a real stat...was more curious how the board views itself........because honestly, so far, I think this is one HELLUVA Liberal board! LOL. ????

I was teasing

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donnybrasco, id be interested in why you feel the need to go liberal bashing when liberalism & libertarianism are branches from the same tree, and conservatism is a bunch of cr@ppy, uninteresting bollocks??

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No worries Squirelly and Aquarian. It's the subtle differences in culture. I'm an admittedly typical OBNOXIOUS American...but I'm pretty much harmless I think...my facetiousness is done purposely pkcRAISTLIN, for humor's sake. Always remember this, and you'll never have to worry about half of what I say, lol.

And to answer that question; You're correct about the roots of "Libertarianism" in this country, and on it's surface, it would stand to reason that "Liberals' (of the garden-variety 1960's movement kind) would be all about less government, no taxes, fewer laws, etc...but the modern-day Liberal of the 1990's and beyond has actually twisted the meaning and the actions. Today's American Liberals did in fact (for example) in the last election vote AGAINST lowering taxes by Bush and support the raising of taxes via their candidate!! I must say, you know your brain-washing is complete when you're actually ASKING your Government to RAISE your taxes! Hardly a "Liberal" sentiment.

Not to mention they are instrumental in creating the never ending litigation in this country, they constantly support more and more red-tape feel good laws, the un-fair and un-equal hiring of minorities who aren't as qualified as others in to key jobs (same goes for college admissions), etc., etc...the list goes on and on of their isolated, un-realistic, myopic view of the world.

But more than anything, they have become more of a "Socialist" party in all reality. But they still call themselves Liberal...and much the way you can't trample on a black man's rights in this country by telling him he's "black", when he in fact calls himself "African-American", you just have to grin and bear whatever term "Liberals" want to call themselves, no matter how off-base it is.

Last edited by donnybrasco on Aug-10-2005 at 07:22

^^ haha. i love it how so many americans talk about "american" *insert ideology here* when talking about theories and implementations (in this case) dating back roughly 400 years, & in europe

i also love it how libertarians dont seem to be able to grasp the concept that in today's day and age, to protect the intrinsic rights at the core of libertarian thought, you need laws & govt

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^^^And that is actually where I split off from my party...some taxes and national defense are needed.

I think the main thing is not to be a party-pet, but rather think for yourself on all issues, without concession to your closest party when they don't see eye to eye with you.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ^^ haha. i love it how so many americans talk about "american" *insert ideology here* when talking about theories and implementations (in this case) dating back roughly 400 years, & in europe i also love it how libertarians dont seem to be able to grasp the concept that in today's day and age, to protect the intrinsic rights at the core of libertarian thought, you need laws & govt

I don't quite see how you're addressing his arguments. As an "American" and a "Libertarian" myself, I don't see how laws and government contradict libertarian belief. What you seem to categorize as libertarian belief seems more closely aligned with anarchism.

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by donnybrasco And to answer that question; You're correct about the roots of "Libertarianism" in this country, and on it's surface, it would stand to reason that "Liberals' (of the garden-variety 1960's movement kind) would be all about less government, no taxes, fewer laws, etc...but the modern-day Liberal of the 1990's and beyond has actually twisted the meaning and the actions. [...Long rant on "American Liberals".]

Where you are wrong is in the act of posting a thread on a truely international forum, and then using "liberal" in the sense it is only used in modern day America to bash true liberals all over the place. That's offensive behaviour.
The reason why "liberal" has a socialist flair in the US, is because of your age old love of the dualism, which has forced anyone into either the republican camp or the democratic camp. As religious lunatics and selfish (which, I hasten to add, does *not* equiate liberal) people have taken full control of the GOP, true liberals (those valuing personal freedom over dogma from tradition or religion) have had no choice but to support the democrats, where the socialists also belongs. As the average American seemingly loves to look at things in black and white, this must mean that liberals is socialists, right. So we might as well go ahead and distort the meaning of "liberal" totally.
Of course, the perversion of the word liberal has picked up speed with the illiterate monkey in the white house, who makes no bones about his disgust of liberals. Too bad that more intelligent people like you have bought into it. The average level of enlightement of the US population must be dropping these years.

^^ Quite right, tranceaholic.

It irritates me beyond belief, when an American on this forum assumes that America is the whole world, and that American politics is the same as other countries' politics.

Some people here are so naive. But who can blame them, they live in a huge insular country that is largely closed off from contact.

For example, in the Chill Out Room, there was a topic recently about the age of consent, and in response to someone's comments, a girl from Texas wrote "Which state do you live in? Here in Texas it's ."

Now, what struck me as enfuriating about that, was that she assumed the poster was from the USA. If she's from the USA, everybody is from the USA, right? WAKE UP GIRL, YOU'RE ON AN INTERNATIONAL FORUM. What an arrogant, ignorant, idiotic attitude to have.