quote:

Originally posted by The Drow What you actually mean is: OMG he was wrong let's flame him...

Well- if the cap fits!

Roflol I can't believe what a bunch of shit I'm reading here.
I only use up to 2 compressors on an entire track and still I get my tracks released and played. The mastered versions sound almost the same as my mixdowns. Who cares if you compress the crap out of everything, there are different ways of doing things people. Why should I compress all my sounds? and why the #$^$% should compression be like everything that makes it sound more pro, that is sooo untrue.

As the drow (that was his name I believe) said: don't compress the kick and bass together. If you want to do so, just do it. Who cares! I personally don't do this as it muffles everything up and it is totally unnecessary in most cases.

There are no solid rules for anything in music, there are some sort of guidelines but you should all take it this seriously by bashing the crap out of eachother. If anyone wants his lead to clip with about1 0dB because it sounds cooler, let hime do it (analog distortion can be sooo cool), who cares, it's the result that counts!

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller Roflol I can't believe what a bunch of shit I'm reading here.

There weren't many posts saying you must do things in a certain way. Most were just telling about techniques they prefer. I said I disagree with the fact that kick+bass should never be compressed. That doesn't mean I think it's wrong not to do it. As you said: it's the result that counts!

BTW: Really nice sounding clips on your site.

quote:

Originally posted by Chronosis There weren't many posts saying you must do things in a certain way. Most were just telling about techniques they prefer. I said I disagree with the fact that kick+bass should never be compressed. That doesn't mean I think it's wrong not to do it. As you said: it's the result that counts! BTW: Really nice sounding clips on your site.

I never said he must do it in my way...

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quote:

Originally posted by Beautiful Beast Can you please elaborate on this technique? I'm not clear on this, but it might be interesting!thanks. BB

Well, there's not a whole lot more to it than what I said.

If you have a track that needs to stand out a lot, particularly one with a broad pitch/frequency range AND a broad dynamic range, like a vocal or a very busy melodic lead, you'll generally want it to sound as "natural" as possible. If you listen to someone sing or play an instrument in a big auditorium, you don't hear the reverb so much when it's soft because of damping effects. Don't confuse this with the "damping" factor you see in a reverb plugin, because that's just an amplitude envelope; acoustic damping in a real environment is very nonlinear (compression is also nonlinear!)

All you do is:
- Make a copy of your lead/vocal track, and lower each by 3 dB to compensate for volume.
- Compress one of them (moderate to high - usually at least 3:1) and leave it dry. Adjust the make-up gain to compensate. DON'T put reverb on it - put your reverb on the uncompressed track.
- In Cubase you can also create a blank group channel, and send a copy of the lead/vocal track to it (in FL you can't really do this, since it doesn't have group channels). Then you use the group channel as the "copy".

That's all there is to it. Listen to the result and you'll find that the reverb is much more noticeable when the lead/vocal gets loud. When it's soft, it sounds more dry, and the track sounds less messy. Doing it this way, you can make any channel sound "louder" without killing its dynamic range and character.

And I know that a lot of people reading this will be shaking their heads and brushing this off, thinking "pssh, I know how to do reverb!" But honestly, I hear a lot of tracks that are literally DROWNED in reverb, and it just doesn't sound good. It gives the listener a splitting headache.

quote:

Originally posted by The Drow They are compressed when you master.... on the mixing level never ever do that.

Dude... it's the same thing. Mastering is just doing shit to the master track. It doesn't matter if you do it in your mixing app (Cubase/FL) or if you do it offline somewhere like Wavelab.

There are MANY advantages to doing your mastering together with the mixing. The mastering process changes the character of all your instruments, so it's very useful to be able to (for example) solo an instrument and have a peek at what its mastered level will be.

If I master with a multiband compressor (which is quite often), it will usually have heavy bass compression and be lighter on the high end. In that case it's absolutely critical to be able to tweak the bass/kick settings by ear - can you even imagine how long it would take if I had to render the track every time I did a tweak and run it through all the mastering plugins again?

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quote:

Originally posted by Chronosis There weren't many posts saying you must do things in a certain way. Most were just telling about techniques they prefer. I said I disagree with the fact that kick+bass should never be compressed. That doesn't mean I think it's wrong not to do it. As you said: it's the result that counts! BTW: Really nice sounding clips on your site.

thanks and sorry for the bit agressive post, I was having a bit of a stressfull day

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

quote:

[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]There are MANY advantages to doing your mastering together with the mixing. The mastering process changes the character of all your instruments, so it's very useful to be able to (for example) solo an instrument and have a peek at what its mastered level will be.

I heavily disagree, mastering at the same time when mixing will not be good for your final master IMO!
I only see the negatives of this, what do I care about the level of my synth when it's mastered? the trick is to have everything settled in the mixdown and do minor changes in some frequency ranges to improve the overal quality. The levels are of no importance to me, I build my track on a reasonable low volume so nothing will clip (lets say the max output is about -10dB), this also leaves enough room for volume maximizing and mastering.

If would have already mastered before I even have my mixdown finished, my master would sound as my mixdown, a bit too less high and a tad too much bass, because that's my ussual problem... Mastering is supposed to correct that afterwards (again IMO!) and not while mixing. It just ruins your mix and makes it harder to get it to sound good from my experience.

And honestly, I don't master my tracks anymore, I let the pro's handle that They're just better at it, even though I could do it about just as good myself.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Aug-19-2005 at 09:08

Diginut, Thank you very much for clarifying. It sounds logical. Only one question: doesn't doubling the track actualy make an audible doubling (phasing?) when using this method? Or will it just sound a bit louder (hence the 3db reduction on each channel)? I haven't tried this yet, so I'm wondering. I use Cubase SX3 btw.

cheers,

BB

do what you feel is right. everyone works out how to produce in their own way. i personally compress alot of stuff. everything i want in the front of the mix, ill compress it. ill compress my kicks. several times if necessary. and my basses. but i always stop before the telltale sibililant hiss which usually indicates that you have compressed it so much that theres hardly any dynamic at all - that the ambient level of the wav you are compressing is now audible. most sounds then just sound loud, flat and hissy. it also depends on the compressor you use. if you use blockfish then you cant overdo it because it colours the sound quite alot. the only compressor i use these days is voxengo crunchessor because its so *transparant*

i really recommend everyone buys that.

this:



has the supersaw type pad very lightly compressed with a fast attack and slow release. the kick is compressed twice. the string sound is compressed also, as are some of the centred backing hats. the synthfall effect is also compressed very hard then panned around the stereo field to shake off the fact that it actually sounds pretty flat, loud and hissy when played on its own. har! and you havent seen what the bass looks like in a mixer window - mwaha! thats a composite of impOSCar and virus b. impOSCar is just the most beautiful soft synth ive ever used and its really showing its colours next to my virus b - it sounds more analogue than any softy ive ever used but i only started to realise it in recent times.

i think i compressed nearly everything to some degree. the pads and strings where recorded separately in another flp file and there was a limiter on that one. ive lost count of the actual number of them i think. if i remove them all the balance changes. the supersaw pad becomes bigger and swallows up the string sound so you cant hear it. it becomes blurrier overall and just a bit of a mess. the whole mix also sails about 8db over the red line.

bottom line: the fun bit is to work all of this out for yourself. you might not like compressors the way i do

Last edited by Derivative on Aug-19-2005 at 18:51