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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Soldiers can not pick and choose which battle they will be a part of. They may have an opinion if the war is just or not but really at the end of the day it isn't them who decide where to go, it is the commanders of this country. If they can not accept that then they have no part of joining the military for the "free money".

Exactly.
If you're getting paid to do a job, then you better damn well do it...

I sure as hell don't tell my boss that, "Well, it's just against my morals to do what you're asking"....
Like....WTF???

Who joins the military and then thinks in mid-stride, "I don't like this, I might get hurt. I think I'll protest and whine and cry".
Heeelllloooo....you're in the frickin' military!!! (beside maybe the gays.....j/k!!! j/k!!! )

...well....maybe the gays will complain about their body ordor or broken nails or somethin'....

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by smokeape I voted yes, though retired from military I am still working for the Army. You agree you pay the ultimate sacrifice by joining up in the military to defend our nation.

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Originally posted by TheNobleEu Sorry, but this is an idiotic and very dangerous attitude.

I don't know if there is a psychological test for new recruits. And if there is one it would be to see how a n00b conforms to the rules.

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It's nonsense masquerading mostly as ill-informed patriotism, and similar mindlessness is getting a lot of destitute, under-educated southern US males uselessly killed because they don't know any better.

The dumber the better. You don't need a Ph.D. to hold a machine gun and kill a baby.

*dons anti-flame suit and loads fire extinguisher*

Anyone that argues that they never killed a baby while on patrol is an outright liar. If a child runs in front of your APV and you are afraid for an ambush, the only thing you can do is to either run the kid over or shoot him dead. Am I wrong? No one should say because they had to. No one ordered those of you off to war. Those of you just got pimped into signing at the dotted line.

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The time of automaton soldiers being used as political tools by self-interested bureaucrats is passing quickly, as a direct result of the very bad experiences of said soldiers and their families.

Movies like Universal Soldier and Soldier are there for kids to watch so that way they can be just like their movie stars. When they get pimped by the recruiter they can live out their dreams. It goes hand in hand.

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Suddenly war and patriotism isn't so grand when it's your children that are being blown up and/or approaching the age of 18, hmm?

People are for some strange reason trying to convince me and others what they are doing is just. Go figure. Killing humans because of we are in a war.

One of the root words of war is confusion.

In war, truth is the first casualty
Aeschylus

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NobelEu goes blah blah. Blah Navy Cook blah.

Good choice. Better than finding mines.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Exactly. If you're getting paid to do a job, then you better damn well do it... I sure as hell don't tell my boss that, "Well, it's just against my morals to do what you're asking".... Like....WTF???

You're perfect for the job. When can we sign you up?

OFFICIAL ENLISTMENT FORM FOR THE US ARMED FORCES aka DD FORM 4/1 with instructions

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Last edited by ogvh5150 on Aug-27-2005 at 05:03

my job is sitting around the office the whole day, do the same stuff over and over. I need some excitement in life, adrenaline, so the life wouldnt be boring. I actually like the fact that you have to literary fight for your life to survive, so maybe I would go to iraq and fight there

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 Anyone that argues that they never killed a baby while on patrol is an outright liar.

Sorry do I have this right? Are you saying that every soldier has killed a baby in Iraq and elsewhere?

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Movies like Universal Soldier and Soldier are there for kids to watch so that way they can be just like their movie stars. When they get pimped by the recruiter they can live out their dreams. It goes hand in hand.

The Army recruiting office made those films?!

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People are for some strange reason trying to convince me and others what they are doing is just. Go figure. Killing humans because of we are in a war.

What the hell do you know about the motives for people joining the military?! Where are your sources? FYI the military offers an excellent career and maybe in America you get redneck drop outs joining but in most professional armies these people wouldn't even get selected. How do you know people dont wanna join the army to help people?

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You're perfect for the job. When can we sign you up?

When I'm fit enuf

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Soldiers can not pick and choose which battle they will be a part of.

--

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r If you're getting paid to do a job, then you better damn well do it... I sure as hell don't tell my boss that, "Well, it's just against my morals to do what you're asking".... Like....WTF??? Who joins the military and then thinks in mid-stride, "I don't like this, I might get hurt. I think I'll protest and whine and cry". Heeelllloooo....you're in the frickin' military!!! (beside maybe the gays.....j/k!!! j/k!!! )

In fact, most do.

Either of you heard much at all about the impact of the first and second Gulf invasions on the troops?

It caused the Pentagon to seriously reconsider allowing, e.g., women in combat arms roles. Several major offensives were stalled and had to be replanned in the first invasion because the night before, some crazy figure like 20% of the infantry requested transfers to the rear (i.e., they put in official requests to be removed from the battle order so they wouldn't have to go into combat). More than a few were females, whose justification was that they were pregnant.

When was the last time either of you had your life in your hands, when in the next hour you could be maimed, severely wounded and suffering terribly, or be killed outright? So yea, ugh, every single one of them considers: "I don't like this, I might get hurt. I think I'll protest and whine and cry". Don't be a couple of fools by thinking it's any other way.

Neither am I arguing they should have a choice, and that's not the point of the thread. But, if I might brush away your parroted, party-line veneers, it isn't so simple to produce cannon fodder anymore, hence:

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil They may have an opinion if the war is just or not but really at the end of the day it isn't them who decide where to go, it is the commanders of this country. If they can not accept that then they have no part of joining the military for the "free money".

Problem: no one signs up "to die" (which is the idiotic topic of this thread and poll). That's all I said. See my other post where I listed all the practical reasons for people to show up.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 I don't know if there is a psychological test for new recruits.

Of course there is.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 The dumber the better. You don't need a Ph.D. to hold a machine gun and kill a baby.

True enough. This is the philosophy of the US Army, in particular the Marine Corps.

I argued that this is not the way to produce quality soldiers. It is however, we agree, the way to train human shields.

And you can see the results in Iraq now...

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 Anyone that argues that they never killed a baby while on patrol is an outright liar.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 No one should say because they had to. No one ordered those of you off to war. Those of you just got pimped into signing at the dotted line. -- ...are there for kids to watch so that way they can be just like their movie stars. When they get pimped by the recruiter they can live out their dreams. It goes hand in hand.

Quite a few, in fact most, "got ordered off to war." What planet are you posting from?

Rhetorical question: so willfully deceiving the uneducated, lower-classes into military service on the promise of a better life, while indoctrinating them to be cannon fodder is fine with you?

You should know that you in particular are the target demographic for such treatment (i.e., those perceived as being undereducated second-class citizens with only passable English).

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 People are for some strange reason trying to convince me and others what they are doing is just. Go figure. Killing humans because of we are in a war. One of the root words of war is confusion. In war, truth is the first casualty Aeschylus

I never did anything of the sort. I'm just having you reconsider your own media-induced drawl.

No idea what you're trying to say; not sure if you've got a point?

-N

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Last edited by TheNobleEu on Aug-29-2005 at 19:50

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Originally posted by George Smiley Sorry do I have this right? Are you saying that every soldier has killed a baby in Iraq and elsewhere?

I've read that women and children account for over 50% of casualties. Whether or not they are combatant kills I cannot say before you jump on the soapbox.

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The Army recruiting office made those films?!

Just as much as Hollywood never knew anything when a TV show called "Lone Gunmen" aired whose pilot episode involved a jetliner crashing into the WTC back in March 2001.

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What the hell do you know about the motives for people joining the military?! Where are your sources? FYI the military offers an excellent career and maybe in America you get redneck drop outs joining but in most professional armies these people wouldn't even get selected. How do you know people dont wanna join the army to help people?

Unknown by the few "rednecks" that join:

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 Injured Iraq Vets Come Home to Poverty (Injured Soldiers Returning from Iraq Struggle for Medical Benefits, Financial Survival) Congress Declares War Against Disabled Veterans from Disabled American Veterans Online Veterans angry over VA health care plans / Front Page -The Olympian Seven Thousand Wounded US Soldiers Treated at One Hospital in Germany Homeless heroes abound as thousands of veterans sleep on streets DU Syndrome Stricken Vets Denied Care U.S. deserter numbers reach 5,500 Army Teams Face Surgeon Shortage Judge Orders Soldier to Report to Iraq US soldiers would kill civilians, says Marine U.S. marine who went missing in Iraq is charged with desertion Bush, Rumsfeld try to soothe angry US troops US GIs hit Rumsfeld with hard questions HOMELESS VETS WAIT YEARS FOR AID From hero to homeless DU Death Toll Tops 11,000 Iraq Affecting Mental Health of Troops Stressed US troops in Iraq 'turning to drugs'

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When I'm fit enuf

Pick a reason:

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 6 Reasons of NOT being able to join the military: 1) physically challenged 2) visually challenged 3) mentally challenged 4) drug addict 5) homosexual 6) sexual pervert If neither of these apply then click for OFFICIAL ENLISTMENT FORM FOR THE US ARMED FORCES aka DD FORM 4/1 with instructions

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Originally posted by TheNobleEu Quite a few, in fact most, "got ordered off to war." What planet are you posting from?

There was a draft?

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Rhetorical question: so willfully deceiving the uneducated, lower-classes into military service on the promise of a better life, while indoctrinating them to be cannon fodder is fine with you?

NO.

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You should know that you in particular are the target demographic for such treatment (i.e., those perceived as being undereducated second-class citizens with only passable English).

Your eloquence speaks volumes.

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I never did anything of the sort. I'm just having you reconsider your own media-induced drawl. No idea what you're trying to say; not sure if you've got a point? -N

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People in general are for some strange reason trying to convince me and others what they are doing is just. Go figure. Killing humans because of we are in a war. One of the root words of war is confusion. In war, truth is the first casualty Aeschylus

Fixed it a bit. I was not refering to you personally, just people in general.

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More than 3,000 members of the Louisiana National Guard’s 256th Brigade serving in Iraq can only watch from Baghdad as Hurricane Katrina bears down on their families and homes in New Orleans and the other south Louisiana communities from which they hail. The deployed soldiers and their equipment, which includes high water vehicles, Humvees and generators, will be sorely missed as Louisiana attempts to prepare for and recover from the historic Category Five storm.
The soldiers of the 256th are due home in October, assuming their tour isn’t extended to beef up US troop levels in Iraq for the October constitutional referendum and December general elections. Mississippi and Alabama, the other states under threat from Katrina’s second assault on the Gulf Coast, also have Guard contingents in Iraq, with 3,500 troops of Mississippi’s 155th Brigade Combat Team serving near Karbala and Najaf, while 140 Alabama Guard troops left last Sunday for training preparatory to joining some 2,000 Alabama troops already deployed overseas.
Louisiana National Guard troops watch Katrina from Iraq

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Originally posted by George Smiley Problem: no one signs up "to die" (which is the idiotic topic of this thread and poll). That's all I said. See my other post where I listed all the practical reasons for people to show up. -N

Of course you don't sign up to die but you sign up knowing that death is a possibility, especially during war. If a person can't comprehend that people die during war and that includes themselves, then that person has no place joining the army.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 There was a draft?

There was:

1. Forced activation of primary reserves as primary combatants;
2. Forced activation of the national guard as primary combatants;
3. Forced re-enlistment for all branches including those who:
a. were short-timers (term of army commitment nearing end);
b. people who were already passed-term and were due to be discharged from the army;
c. people who had already been on tour to Iraq and returned home.

There's also a propaganda network (er, "recruitment") for 'a career in the army' that service people are forced to attend in the event they somehow can't be immediately shanghaiied in one of the above ways.

Ever heard of selective service? You might very soon.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Of course you don't sign up to die but you sign up knowing that death is a possibility, especially during war. If a person can't comprehend that people die during war and that includes themselves, then that person has no place joining the army.

You're still spouting one-liners, spare us.

See above, not all joined willingly. And regardless, did you 'sign up' to work in a supermarket, a car wash, or even a factory "knowing that death is a possibility?" It's probably in the contract.

Sure, theoretically, but when you took the job did you imagine that such a thing could happen to you?

What about those that signed up for non-combatant roles, that got forcibily reassigned to the front lines? Fair then to say that such people didn't sign up with the intention of risking their lives?

-N

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Last edited by TheNobleEu on Aug-29-2005 at 21:50

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Originally posted by TheNobleEu There was: 1. Forced activation of primary reserves as primary combatants; 2. Forced activation of the national guard as primary combatants; 3. Forced re-enlistment for all branches including those who: a. were short-timers (term of army commitment nearing end); b. people who were already passed-term and were due to be discharged from the army; c. people who had already been on tour to Iraq and returned home. There's also a propaganda network (er, "recruitment") for 'a career in the army' that service people are forced to attend in the event they somehow can't be immediately shanghaiied in one of the above ways. Ever heard of selective service? You might very soon. You're still spouting one-liners, spare us. See above, not all joined willingly. And regardless, did you 'sign up' to work in a supermarket, a car wash, or even a factory "knowing that death is a possibility?" It's probably in the contract. Sure, theoretically, but when you took the job did you imagine that such a thing could happen to you? What about those that signed up for non-combatant roles, that got forcibily reassigned to the front lines? Fair then to say that such people didn't sign up with the intention of risking their lives? -N

My one line means more than the paragraphs of crap that you post every day so spare me your arrogance. If this was a discussion where validity was based on the amount of words you type you'd win hands down.

Please don't compare working in a supermarket or car wash to working in the military, it has no correlation what-so-ever. This is the army, you carry big guns with the intention to protect the country, you are trained in combat, who else do you expect the government to use? These aren't bag boys asked to stay an extra shift because a co-worker is sick.

Here is the enlistment PDF contract stating that reserves may be called to duty in times of war and that those who are out of duty their terms may be extended. If you don't understand the contract for Christ's sake don't sign it.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/pdf/enlistment.pdf

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil My one line means more than the paragraphs of crap that you post every day so spare me your arrogance. If this was a discussion where validity was based on the amount of words you type you'd win hands down.

That's nice, why don't you prove it by responding to any of the array of points I raised above, instead of snipping and ignoring them, then casting insults?

Anything insightful or interesting to say? (wouldn't it be nice if that was a criteria for posting?) Show me you're capable of something that "means more" than the inane claptrap of the above.

Always carries the ability to astonish me when people have nothing to say once relieved of the party line.

-N

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Last edited by TheNobleEu on Aug-30-2005 at 06:26