...which was the basis for the barcode.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z ...which was the basis for the barcode.

Creating, as you call it, "the basis for" does not equal equzting the actual concept of the bar code for the nazis.

Regardless of what IBM did create for the Germans, you are throwing imbellishments out to further your argument.

Yes, I am nitpicking. But using an evolutionary link between two technologies to say a technology was expressly created for an entity decades before it actually was invented is irresponsible.

MrS

___________________
Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ooooo, I feel so much better about RFIDs now. IBM is my friend, they couldn't possibly be disingenuos. I'm sure they're looking after my interests... BTW, are you guys aware of the fact that IBM invented the bar code that was used in Nazi concentration camps for purposes of making slave labour and systematic killing easier and more efficient?

Yes, and Honda builds thousands of cars a day that are used by drunk drivers that kill thousands of innocent woman and children EVERY YEAR.

They MUST be the devil!

Honestly shaolin, just because a company invents something that gets misconstrued and twisted by sick individuals doesn't mean it's the inventors/manufacturer's fault.

Let's not 'skip' over the responsibilities of those actually pulling the trigger just to make an off-based point.

[edit]@ MrSquirrel: I just read your comments now and it's seems we're of the same opinion

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel Creating, as you call it, "the basis for" does not equal equzting the actual concept of the bar code for the nazis.

Yes, you're right. I made a slight leap there. It still doesn't detract from my point though.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yes, and Honda builds thousands of cars a day that are used by drunk drivers that kill thousands of innocent woman and children EVERY YEAR. They MUST be the devil! Honestly shaolin, just because a company invents something that gets misconstrued and twisted by sick individuals doesn't mean it's the inventors/manufacturer's fault. Let's not 'skip' over the responsibilities of those actually pulling the trigger just to make an off-based point.

IBM approached the Nazi regime in order to business from a "solution" to their "problem" of information managment & efficiency. IBM was well aware of what it was doing. Your pathetic anology holds no water.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

They did the same in South Africa to support the apartheid infrastructure of documenting everyone according to racial profiling so they could in turn work out where you where to live, what schools you where allowed to go to and if you where allowed to vote.
IBM will sell fairly much anything to anyone for whatever they want to do unless the US government steps in and tells them not to do it. They're as pragmatic as any other multinational really, probably a worse history than most though for selling stuff to people for all the wrong reasons.
Though of course, the $19,000,000,000 per annum US arms industry probably has a better record of actually killing people. Shortly followed by the $10,000,000,000 per annum Russian and French arms industries.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z IBM approached the Nazi regime in order to business from a "solution" to their "problem" of information managment & efficiency. IBM was well aware of what it was doing. Your pathetic anology holds no water.

One thing the author of course won't bring to light too much; the IBM subsidiary in Germany, once under the control of the Reich, was no longer under control of the IBM head office and was therefore working under their own volition with no upward guidance other than the Nazis.
This point I'll admit, is one of contention (even today) as it can't be proven either way.
If anything, IBM's lesson is probably one of morality depending on whether or not the American based HQ knew what their German subsidiarity was doing.
But did IBM "abet" the Holocaust? If so, at what point?

Again, we're jumping the trigger man here.
Remember we're dealing with a Nazi regime that lied to EVERYONE (Chamberlain anyone?) to get what they wanted in a time of war.

[EDIT]
I have to concede one point for you Shaolin as I tripped across this while doing some more research:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internati...,675727,00.html
Which basically states that the link between IBM's NY office and Germany's is no longer a fuzzy question mark; there was communication between the two.

The only remaining question now is if 'IBM's New York executives knew the ultimate use to which their machines were being put.'

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Last edited by Fir3start3r on Dec-02-2006 at 23:16

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r One thing the author of course won't bring to light too much; the IBM subsidiary in Germany, once under the control of the Reich, was no longer under control of the IBM head office and was therefore working under their own volition with no upward guidance other than the Nazis. This point I'll admit, is one of contention (even today) as it can't be proven either way. If anything, IBM's lesson is probably one of morality depending on whether or not the American based HQ knew what their German subsidiarity was doing. But did IBM "abet" the Holocaust? If so, at what point? Again, we're jumping the trigger man here. Remember we're dealing with a Nazi regime that lied to EVERYONE (Chamberlain anyone?) to get what they wanted in a time of war. [EDIT] I have to concede one point for you Shaolin as I tripped across this while doing some more research: http://www.guardian.co.uk/internati...,675727,00.html Which basically states that the link between IBM's NY office and Germany's is no longer a fuzzy question mark; there was communication between the two. The only remaining question now is if 'IBM's New York executives knew the ultimate use to which their machines were being put.'

The power of denial.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z The power of denial.

Denial has nothing to do with it on my part; that's the case as it stands in court to this day.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Denial has nothing to do with it on my part; that's the case as it stands in court to this day.

Forgive me for not being a brainwashed sheep with sooo much faith in the system and power structure.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I'll add that just from reasoning having a self-powered RFID chip of some sort is not that complicated or impossible. With the new developments going on in wireless technologies, and taking into account that you could produce electricity from the human body in many ways, with a couple of years of research you could very well have a self-powered potent RFID (for lack of better term) system with a WAY bigger range.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

quote:

Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome