quote:

Originally posted by 00soups00 decriminalisation of drugs... you must be joking right.... no seriously!!! you MUST be joking... im suprised someone as smart as yourself johno4l is saying something like that.. yes, it can be argued that if drugs werent illegal, then it would take the criminal element away from it all, and therefor some of the appeal would be taken away.

firstly, unless the federal govt does something sneaky re international treaties concerning drugs, the legality of narcotic substances is a state issue, not a commonwealth one, so its a moot point.

quote:

Originally posted by 00soups00 In my opinion, that is rubbish. You decriminalise drugs you have an even bigger problem where the people take way too much and end up like drugfaced mules (if that doesnt happen already). it may not be nice to say, but ill say it anyway, death by overdoses is an effective culling device. you take that away by introducing government controlled drugs/dosage, who the hell knows what would happen.

youre an idiot soups. firstly, there are countries in the world that have a markedly different stance on drug use than australia, and they do just fine. also, the word decriminalise is very very different from LEGALISE. but youre just a typical gurner who likes to distinguish between substances - the drug problem is defined by people that i dont like abusing drugs i dont use. the ever-reliable position of the holier-than-thou hypocrite.

the currently legal substances cause far more grief and damage than narcotics ever will, regardless of legalities.

quote:

Originally posted by 00soups00 as far as the IR reform, what are the examples of how this would affect the average worker? Im assuming that you (like myself) are basing your judgement purely on advertising, plus you wouldnt be a fan of the Liberal Party either. What EVIDENCE do you have to suggest it makes the ordinary person worse off??

how about the fact that the small business employees will lose their right to challenge a dismissal? how about that currently unemployed workers will be put into AWAs that they must 'negotiate' with the boss; to negotiate means that you have some bargaining power. what kind of bargaining power does an unemployed desperado have? by allowing this, it undermines the wages of currently employed ppl. sure, apparently you cant be fired for choosing not to sign an AWA, but who the fvck wants to be in the same job theyre doing right now for the rest of their life? sooner or later they'll wanna move and then that AWA is gonna be rearing its ugly head. hey, soups works for 55c an hour, we'd be happy for you to join our lovely business at the same rate. fvck off.

what EVIDENCE do you have soups that it wont be detrimental to your average worker? quick, go switch on the telly and parrot what the Liberal, oh im sorry i mean government advertising is telling you.

___________________

i was just asking for some evidence pertaining to these reforms and you have provided them, so thank you. i wasnt leaning one way or the other, i just wanted some facts, instead of those government advertisements..

and as far as the legalisation things goes, the currently legal substances cause much greater harm, which is a great omen for the argument of switching.

^^ im not saying that IR doesnt need reforming, but this tips the balance so far in favour of business i think its disgusting. as jono4l said, its moving us down the US route where we\'ll be increasing the numbers of working poor. the US hasnt had a minimum wage increase since 1997. im not totally sure, but those under AWAs arent going to get the benefits of minimum wage increase (this is an assumption, i dont know for sure, wheres renegade?). so how does a person on a \"bargained\" award keep up with things like inflation etc?

as far as im concerned the main issue of drug reform is what does criminalisation achieve? it makes drugs more expensive, benefitting those that are flouting the law to begin with, and pushes crime rates higher.

i am highly suspect of the argument that decriminalising narcotics would lead to a higher rate of use. it would be negligable at best imo. i dont see massive problems in the ACT where pot has been decriminalised. but even if it did increase their use, i still argue that many of the negative impacts associated with drug use is closely tied in with their illegal status.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN the currently legal substances cause far more grief and damage than narcotics ever will, regardless of legalities.

here is an interesting article on prescription drugs. Read whats in red, eg: "Street drugs kill only 10% as many people every year, as legal, prescription drugs (6-times more than those Americans killed in the Vietnam War)."

quote:

Originally posted by narcism the health systems is at crisis point perhaps?

This is a moot point. The public has no idea how fucked up the health system is at the moment, it's literally falling apart, yet upper management are trying to fabricate it's current state to the public :/

quote:

Originally posted by tathi here is an interesting article on prescription drugs. Read whats in red, eg: \"Street drugs kill only 10% as many people every year, as legal, prescription drugs (6-times more than those Americans killed in the Vietnam War).\"

im not quite sure what your point is tathi.
are you saying decriminalising street drugs would put it on a similar platform as prescription medication?? what i would guarantee however was if you moved the responsibility of prescription medication from pharmaceutical companies and legislative bodies to backyard cook-houses that those stats would be far far worse.

___________________

not at all; i was just pointing out that there are legalised drugs that are far more dangerous that some street drugs

quote:

what i would guarantee however was if you moved the responsibility of prescription medication from pharmaceutical companies and legislative bodies to backyard cook-houses that those stats would be far far worse.

agree.

oh and i skipped the point of the thread: do you think John Howard has done a good job? No, not at all.

Reasons:
- The casus belli for war in Iraq was a lie, the unilateral annexation of Iraq is illegal under international law
- Human rights abuses under the Howard government, our inhumane treatment of refugee's has drawn censure from all around the world, my dad has worked in a detention centre, not pretty!
- At times Howard is very loose with the truth, especially around election time..
- the health system is about to die in the ass

i don't know much about IR though

But i'm very disillusioned with labor also :/

lets not forget how well treated the aboringinal people are...

live like kings they do.

___________________
CLICK HERE FOR SOUNDCLOUD

good points tathi & jpl. who knew that there was a soft lefty inside jpl? good to have you aboard

___________________

i come from a family of school teahcers - ive got commie blood lol

___________________
CLICK HERE FOR SOUNDCLOUD

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN good points tathi & jpl. who knew that there was a soft lefty inside jpl? good to have you aboard

i think its because he used to date an aboriginal

quote:

Originally posted by tathi This is a moot point. The public has no idea how fucked up the health system is at the moment, it's literally falling apart, yet upper management are trying to fabricate it's current state to the public :/

But lets all talk about the important subject of illegal drugs

^^ only because i know more in that area, why don't you fill us in on whats happening in public health Narcism

(i only just realised your name is Narcism not narcisism )