IMO a workplace that makes you work for free is not a workplace worth getting. and it's actually illegal here in finland for people to work for free, so the laws do apply here. slaves work for free. employees get paid for their work.

would you give ass to some fat hairy dude if you'd get a "secure" job from him afterwards? i know i wouldn't.
if you're working for free you're getting fucked. if you like that then i think you have some issues.

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uhhh. its not a question of liking it. and secondly, i already made this quite clear - THEY do NOT make you work for free. THAT *is* slavery. YOU volunteer to work for free to PROVE you have what it takes. YES - its just like slavery. like i said, come to dublin. you would love it here. this is why we have the second highest GDP in europe. does it stink of corruption? hell fu.cking yes. your point?

when you are trying to get a job and there are loads of others out there with better CVs and better qualifications then this is really something that will help.

with regards to DJing, if you had that attitude you would never get a set. not if i was around, practising everyday and willing to undercut you every time.

just ask zizack. would he give rookie A a set or rookie B a set? both are of similar ability. rookie A is willing to play for nothing and hes willing to come back every week with new shit. for free, until hes got what it takes headline an event. or is he going to give rookie B a set? a person who demands a fee up front on account of the fact that he wont work for nothing. because it equals slavery.

zizack would probably think 'got no time for people that dont have the passion, the discipline and the drive to go through shit for what they love.'

'rookie A - you got yourself a set. dont. FU.CK. UP.'

meanwhile rookie B would still be traipsing around town trying to find a complete mug to pay him money for being a newbie.

Last edited by Derivative on Nov-06-2005 at 00:16

the point is that people shouldn't be made to work for free. of course you aren't forced to do it, but if you have no other chance then something should be done about that. thank god here in finland things are good in that way. i would never have believed ireland is such a undeveloped country that the situation is like that there. main point is that if you're working for free, you're getting screwed and you seem to be one who accepts that. i have principles and i won't accept getting screwed.
my own life/satisfactory is more important than some crappy job/gig, so i won't sacrifice my principles for those. apparently i am the minority here, but that's fine by me.

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quote:

i would never have believed ireland is such a undeveloped country that the situation is like that there. main point is that if you're working for free, you're getting screwed and you seem to be one who accepts that. i have principles and i won't accept getting screwed.

dude. have you ever tried to get a music related job in one of the fastest growing capital cities in the world? especially with the edge living down the road in dun leghaire, louis walsh having coffee in bewleys and like 50 different studios all taking (and binning) applications of young hopefuls fresh out of school/uni/college? and the worst (read: BEST) binge drinking and clubbing culture in europe by far? your chances are like 1 in a million. if you are a DJ. HA! good luck getting a paid set anywhere in the city unless your name is big enough to put on a t-shirt and sell. its impossible unless you can prove, by whatever means necessary, you are 100% up for it. and yea, it involves doing stuff for free. thats proof you arent gonna lay down and give up. thats proof you are gonna keep bouncing back until you are good enough to get paid.

am i getting screwed by gleeson, mcgrath and baldwin solicitors? long term no. i can get too many opportunities from this. half the people there are on first name terms with some of my musical heroes. short term? hell yes. i have to borrow money to pay this months rent. but the bank of mum understands.

principles in the world of work? har har har! there are no principles in the world of work. its the chain of command in full effect. the rewards at the top are rich and plentiful. but the footsoldiers at the bottom are the ones ending face down in the dirt.

they should print this out and put it on a leaflet entitled: WELCOME TO DUBLIN. JOB CENTRE IS THIS WAY --->

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Morello when it comes down to establishing yourself if you're great when you first start to play out, the word will catch and spread like wildfire however, if you're not that great, that reputation can follow you for a bit until you really start proving yourself that's why i said if you're not good enough to expect to be paid for playing out, even if it's a couple free drinks, something to compensate you for your time and effort you shouldn't be playing out save yourself, take some more time in the bedroom and playing house parties (those are key, i've played so many house parties while i was learning, it's mind-boggling) and really hone your skills then when you do play out, blow everyone away, and it'll catch like wildfire i found the best way to learn is to constantly be recording yourself and picking apart your mixes litterally, the only music you should be listening to for the fist while are your own mixes and just have them on repeat, constantly go over them

thats just not realistic. If you're playing out for the first time, chances are you're doing it as an opener or maybe in a lounge or bar. And as an opener or in a more low ket setting, you shouldn't be trying to "blow people away." my first gig was in a lounge as an opener..I sure as hell wasn't trying to blow people away trying to make peopel remember me....I was just trying to do my job, set a nice mood in the room and gain some experience in the process....

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Last edited by Zack Roth on Nov-06-2005 at 02:34

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative and the worst (read: BEST) binge drinking and clubbing culture in europe by far?

I agree with everything you're saying.. but what are you talking about above.. Binge drinking... yes that's definitely right, but Best Clubbing culture? Where do you go? lol

nelly

nelly go to bed ffs

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My first gig was to raise money for cancer..sooo.... they need it more than i do...

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quote:

Originally posted by Derivative just ask zizack. would he give rookie A a set or rookie B a set? both are of similar ability. rookie A is willing to play for nothing and hes willing to come back every week with new shit. for free, until hes got what it takes headline an event. or is he going to give rookie B a set? a person who demands a fee up front on account of the fact that he wont work for nothing. because it equals slavery. zizack would probably think 'got no time for people that dont have the passion, the discipline and the drive to go through shit for what they love.' 'rookie A - you got yourself a set. dont. FU.CK. UP.' meanwhile rookie B would still be traipsing around town trying to find a complete mug to pay him money for being a newbie.

exactly. I am a dj first and use promoting as a way of getting parties thrown and myself on the decks...I started out like every dj a couple years ago, so I know about playing for free. When I'm throwing a party and not paying openers and closers, I'm doing it because of tight budgets, not because I'm greedy and don't want to shell out money. I want djs who can a.) throw down solid sets and b.) djs who are excited and hungry to get out there and play and guys who are gonna bring something to the party...not just play their set and leave when they get paid. I want cool kids who care as much about the sucessof the party as I do, not about how much they are getting paid. A great turnout and vibe beats out a big pay day any night of the week in my eyes.

and I also want to add that I really do try and take care of non-headlining djs as best as I can, even if they're not getting paid....by way of drink tickets etc...

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quote:

Originally posted by zizack exactly. I am a dj first and use promoting as a way of getting parties thrown and myself on the decks...I started out like every dj a couple years ago, so I know about playing for free. When I'm throwing a party and not paying openers and closers, I'm doing it because of tight budgets, not because I'm greedy and don't want to shell out money. I want djs who can a.) throw down solid sets and b.) djs who are excited and hungry to get out there and play and guys who are gonna bring something to the party...not just play their set and leave when they get paid. I want cool kids who care as much about the sucessof the party as I do, not about how much they are getting paid. A great turnout and vibe beats out a big pay day any night of the week in my eyes. and I also want to add that I really do try and take care of non-headlining djs as best as I can, even if they're not getting paid....by way of drink tickets etc...

Zizack def has the right idea on whats going on with a dj starting out.

As for TOny Morello, i played one of his nights in calgary and i didnt get paid . But i did get some free drinks. which came in handy. plus tonys a really cool guy so it wasnt like employee / boss relationship, just havin fun.

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quote:

Originally posted by Derivative dude. have you ever tried to get a music related job in one of the fastest growing capital cities in the world? especially with the edge living down the road in dun leghaire, louis walsh having coffee in bewleys and like 50 different studios all taking (and binning) applications of young hopefuls fresh out of school/uni/college? and the worst (read: BEST) binge drinking and clubbing culture in europe by far? your chances are like 1 in a million. if you are a DJ. HA! good luck getting a paid set anywhere in the city unless your name is big enough to put on a t-shirt and sell. its impossible unless you can prove, by whatever means necessary, you are 100% up for it. and yea, it involves doing stuff for free. thats proof you arent gonna lay down and give up. thats proof you are gonna keep bouncing back until you are good enough to get paid. am i getting screwed by gleeson, mcgrath and baldwin solicitors? long term no. i can get too many opportunities from this. half the people there are on first name terms with some of my musical heroes. short term? hell yes. i have to borrow money to pay this months rent. but the bank of mum understands. principles in the world of work? har har har! there are no principles in the world of work. its the chain of command in full effect. the rewards at the top are rich and plentiful. but the footsoldiers at the bottom are the ones ending face down in the dirt. they should print this out and put it on a leaflet entitled: WELCOME TO DUBLIN. JOB CENTRE IS THIS WAY --->

no i haven't and never will. i will not work in any music related things. music is something i do out of passion, not for money and work is something i do to get money. i'm just fucking glad i don't live in such a ghetto country (the bolded part). i feel sorry for anyone who does.

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