its kinda mixed up.

in some cases, some poeple literally seem to worship the DJ but others are just their for the music and the people. I go for a little of both. i dont look at the DJ as a messianic figure. I spin records myself, and although it is by no means to the level that some do, I know that a DJ is nothing but a musical artist per se. the first time i saw a real show, it was kind of like.. "whoa! this is really him!" but after a couple shows and getting into spnning vinyl myself its become more like, well, i know he's a good DJ and I love the music so I'm gonna go. I've seen Oakenfold twice, as well as Felix Da Housecat, Sharam of Deep Dish, and Hernan Cattaneo.


There is definitely a solid drug stereotype sorrounding the music, but lets be honest. it sorrounds all music. yes, ectasy seems to be much more prevalent in the electronic scene but drugs and alcohol run rampant in all music. rap is weed, rock is weed and coke, country is liquor, doesnt matter where you are, all music (excluding perhaps christian music) has some sort of drug scene. its just that the electronic scene is new and underground and whenever it surfaces into the mainstream in any way, it sort of rubs people the wrong way because its so much different than what they're used to listening to. its gives most people the overall bad impression and then when something like an ectasy related death occurs at an illegal rave, it makes national headlines and the electronic scene gets pushed further underground and more and more people stick their noses up at it.

idk whate else you wanna know, although i love ranting and i love doing reports and essays so if you wanna know more, drop me a PM or something

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Originally posted by A.J. The definition that sees it as a consumer movement that protects and informs consumers through standards and regulations - power to the buyer

Consumerism doesn't want to give power to the buyer, consumerism wants to rob the buyer of it. Moreover, the avowed mandate of consumerism isn't getting the buyer to buy, but how quickly can it get the buyer to buy more. You might say the power of the free market wants to inform and allot power, but consumerism is at odds with the free market too. It is an entirely new beast altogether.

Consumerism, like all despotic ideologies, seeks to control, obfuscate, and drown with meaningless distractions.

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Originally posted by A.J. However, in many cases, a service is consumed as it is produced. The consumer can actually be a part of the production process. Like I said before, a haircut, a massage or a doctor's checkup are all services that can be consumed as they are produced.

The barber is not cutting his own hair. The doctor and masseuse are not servicing themselves.

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Originally posted by A.J. "First you get the need/want, then you get the product, then you get the the power"

Then you get the women.

Seriously though......what if you have no need?

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Originally posted by stevieboy32808 The problem here is that there is no true definition for culture because we are all right.

Actually, if you want to know the true etymology of it, I'll tell you:

Culture came from the word civilized. The word 'civilized' was invented in the 18th century by French aristocrats to refer to their refinement of living. So, in its strictest sense, being civilized literally meant "to be an 18th century french upperclass male." Napoleon's armies carried this word across Europe, using it as a badge of pride to show the conquererd peoples how pure and righteous they were. So naturally in these lands the people came to think of civilized as something haughty, snooty, and stupid. It was a word with negative connotations. So they came up with their own word to mean themselves, that was in direct opposition to civilized....and that word was something along the lines of koulture (prussian/germanic origin, latin-based)....which meant THEM. But more importantly, it meant not civilized.

Throughout the nineteenth century, those words still had those meanings, although more broader in scope: civilized was any nation with high technology, science and customs, or in other words western Europe. Culture was all the savages they conquered.

With that said, today the words mean something different, but what I detest more than anything else is this moral relativistic bullshit willingness to claim that it is all up to an individual's own thought processes. Crap. There are such things as universality and absolutes. Don't rewrite the rules to fit your own preconceived solipsism. In other words, don't say culture is anything you want to make of it. If I go outside and squash a bug, I am not joining the culture of bug squashers, I am a guy squashing a bug. Stop it.

By being all-inclusive, you are numbing the word into meaninglessness. If we call every day a sunny day no matter what the weather is, then what's a sunny day?

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Originally posted by avstar yeah cuz you see Van Buuren come up on the number 2 spot this week in TRL right after Kanye West...I dunno what you're talking about dude. Armin is not pop/teen culture.

as time goes by this gets closer and closer to actually happening.

Did you read the interview where armin said he wanted to work with P.diddy(or is it just "diddy" now?). Have you seen the hundreads of commercials with EDM in the background? Have you seen the ads for the "Ultra Trance" CD's that come on the TV? What about those rediculous cube-shaped SUV's that are marketed to young drivers that have the optional; turntable attachment? Have you ever been to a tiesto concert? Have you heard the new Madonna CD?

All these developments reek of pop/teen culture and if you don't notice it then you are blind. Todays trance parties happen more like teen club events then they ever have before.

Last edited by Zombie0915 on Nov-30-2005 at 14:49

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Originally posted by avstar You'r input would very much be appreciated!

drugs

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Originally posted by Ishkur Actually, if you want to know the true etymology of it, I'll tell you: Culture came from the word civilized. The word 'civilized' was invented in the 18th century by French aristocrats to refer to their refinement of living. So, in its strictest sense, being civilized literally meant "to be an 18th century french upperclass male."

I am not an 18th century french upperclassman so I guess this makes me uncivilized and ultimately without culture. Your statement shows how cultures evolveS and how we define it. You put it best with this sentence:

"It was a word with negative connotations. So they came up with their own word to mean themselves, that was in direct opposition to civilized....and that word was something along the lines of koulture (prussian/germanic origin, latin-based)....which meant THEM"

This is what culture is about and that is us defining it. As I said before in order for a culture to survive it must have a strong following, otherwise it diminishes like the French aristocracy of the 18th century. Nobody acts like that anymore. Yes it was once a cultre, but not anymore.

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Orignially posted by Ishkur With that said, today the words mean something different......is this moral relativistic bullshit willingness to claim that it is all up to an individual's own thought processes. Crap. There are such things as universality and absolutes. Don't rewrite the rules to fit your own preconceived solipsism.

You keep proving me right time and time again. Just look at your first sentence. That is another example of us defining culture.

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Orignially posted by Ishkur In other words, don't say culture is anything you want to make of it. If I go outside and squash a bug, I am not joining the culture of bug squashers, I am a guy squashing a bug. Stop it.

The reason bug squashing is not a culture is because there is no strong, structured, organized following that exists. Again, without a loyal following the culture stops to exist. Although entomolgists live for that stuff and that is a huge culture in itself if you think about it. They go to college to live, breathe, and study the art of the bug.

Ishkur, AJ, and stevieboy, start your own thread about what culture means. I'm trying to get some information regarding rave culture. I don't wanna hear you tell me how it doesn't exist and argue about commercialism and all the bullshit. All I wanted to know was what goes on when you go these shows.
For those people who have actually stuck to my thread's purpose, thank you.
And even though Tiesto concerts are becoming more "pop", I've still met hardcore trance fans there who are actually not on drugs.

Maybe we can direct this forum more towards what makes the trance music do what we do? How does trance, or any EDM for that matter, influence our lives?

For me, trance helps me focus. It's almost as if I'm in a movie and I'm trying to defeat the big bad guy and I get this rhythm going in my body that helps me become stronger, mentally and even physically. If you wanna laugh at me like Ishkur did, then do it on another forum. Maybe trance doesn't affect your life, but it does to me. I don't think I would listen to it if it didnt.

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Originally posted by avstar information regarding rave culture

http://www.ishkur.com/culture/

thank you!

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Originally posted by Ishkur Tolkien's Yanyar, Noldar and Teleri tribes are cultures.

That's Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri. You may be a history buff, but i'm a fake history buff.

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Addy fo SHADDY ! hiccup, KA pladdy.

Yes, yes. I know...I know, I can read fucking Sindarin, okay...see, it was really late and I didn't feel likeOkay, fine. You want to throw down right fucking now? Bring it, ithryn runt. I'll go fucking nirnaeth arnoediad on your nature-loving ass.