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TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Music Discussion > Who should get the most credit, the producer, or the dj?
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mdmaddict



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: The last train to Lhasa

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
[...]

So what must be done with this? .....simple: We must educate all the newbs. You can start by getting this Tshirt:


i must get myself one of those.

Old Post Dec-29-2005 09:25  Sweden
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Sanjoy
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: May 2005
Location: Norway, Oslo

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
All music production can be broken down into 3 principle facets:

The Songwriter.
The Producer.
The Performer.

Up until the 60s, very rarely was one person all three. In classical parlance, the Songwriter was the composer, putting annotated music on paper, the Producer was the Conductor, completing the Songwriter's vision through symphony, and the performer was the orchestra, playing the actual music live.

It wasn't until the rush of self-contained "bands" in the 60s who wrote, produced and performed all their own music (bands had existed long before this, but the Beatles were the first ones who really brought the idea to the forefront) that people began to think of them as one and the same, but in most pop music, those distinctions still exist. Consider, for instance, the hit pop song "Hit Me Baby One More Time". This would be categorized as:

Songwriter(s) == Jörgen Elofsson, David Krueger, Per Magnusson and Max Martin
Producer == Max Martin
Performer == Britney Spears

Max Martin is the brainchild behind other acts as well, including Backstreet Boys, Nsync and much of Christina Aguilera's early output, which is why their music sounds so similar. Say what you want about the music, you can't ignore his knack for a good pop hook since he seems to do it so effortlessly. Now, Britney may be the most famous member of this partnership, but only because she is the faceplate, the image to sell the music to the public. She isn't the marketer, per se; she is the product itself. But she in no way makes the most money out of all of them. Martin's been in the industry for 20 years, and long after she's become a joke of a VH1 special, he'll have moved on to create the next pop sensation. So he doesn't care that he doesn't have millions of adorating fans. In fact, he likes it that way. Puppetmasters don't want fame and attention. They just want money and power. And he has tons of it.

Sometimes the songwriter is also the performer, but need help from a producer to make their songs professional. Such was the pact between Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones to create the biggest selling album of all time: Thriller.

Now, in electronic music's case, typically the Producer and Songwriter are one and the same, since music production these days has literally fused with music creation (in the old days, you wrote the song first, then you recorded it. Today, most producers aren't musically educated enough to write music or even conceptualize complete songs in their head, and thus quite often write the songs as they record them, making it up as they go and do whatever sounds right to them). Who is the performer? ...why, the DJ of course. So thus, you have, for example, this dichotomy:

Songwriter: Matt Darey, Red Jerry
Producer: Lost Tribe/Westbam
Performer: Paul Oakenfold

Obviously the weird system of electronic music production management and promotion is completely at odds with the ordinary world of album-oriented marketing, but the people making the jump from the pop world to the EDM one don't know that. Thus, they really do see Oakenfold as a Britney Spears. And thus, they really do see Wizards of the Sonic or Gamemaster as Oakenfold tracks...not that he made them, but that he owns them. That they are his signature, his calling card, and that only he can play them and no other DJ can, because they're HIS tracks. HIS records that he always plays at his "shows". For any other DJ to play these records would be seen as almost blasphemous, on par with Nsync singing a Backstreet Boys song (although, sure, bands play cover tunes all the time, but not generally their direct competition).

And like Britney, the DJ gets all the fame. But unlike the pop system, again the EDM scene shows its bizzaro world behavior in nullifying the success the Producer deserves. The DJ gets the fame AND the money. It has, in recent, years, forced producers to come out of the woodwork to start DJing more since that is where the money is. They make even more money when they come out and spin just their own productions, becoming 1.5 hour commercials for their own music, like mobile sales teams (Gabriel & Dresden and Above & Beyond are the biggest culprits of this).

So what must be done with this? .....simple: We must educate all the newbs. You can start by getting this Tshirt:


fantastic post! said everything I ever wanted to say about this subject..

Old Post Dec-29-2005 10:56  Norway
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Mike_Foyle
Two colours in my head



Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Leicester, UK

quote:
Originally posted by Demoted
I really don't see the problem with djs whoring their own productions in their own sets as you pointed out Above & Beyond and Gabriel & Dresden doing. I know there was a thread made yesterday concerning this. I think it's perfectly fine to play your own tracks in your own sets rather than everyone else's.


+1

i think its alot more respectable to play your own music in clubs from time to time than just spinning other peoples and taking 100% of the credit for it, which is what happens in reality. its all about the misconception that djs make all the music they play, i cant come up with another explaination. people worship djs even if they arent technically that good... which i cant complain about as they are the people promoting my music but at the same time its not totally fair is it.


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Old Post Dec-29-2005 13:02  United Kingdom
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PlasticSoul
I know you love me too.



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Brasília - DF

dj or the producer?
the producer deserves all the credit, I can mix.


I agree with Ishkur...


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Old Post Dec-29-2005 13:42  Brazil
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Purple
. . . . . . . . .



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: . . . . . . . . .

Every DJ inspires to be producer one day.

I guess that answeres everything.


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Old Post Dec-29-2005 13:48 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Now now, we all know we can only blame idiots who can't name their mp3's correctly for that.


Ha. For all we know, Tiesto could deliberately re-name all his sets so all the songs are credited to him, then release them into the wild of P2P.

Seriously though, it's not uncommon for a named mix compilation to have all the MP3s tagged to the DJ. Check this (awful) tag out:

Paul_Oakenfold_-_10_-_Lost_Tribe_-_Gamemaster_(Original_Mix).mp3

To your average idiot who has never heard of Tranceport, that's Oakie's track because they've never heard of Lost Tribe. Why the fuck Oakie's name should go in the tag at all can only be to try and get him some more profile when the inevitable happens.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Old Post Dec-29-2005 13:48  England
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Xtatica
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Essex, England

I often wonder this as I am learning to produce Dance and trance - one of the guys I am in contact with remixed one of my tracks into a prodigy style and it sounded fantastic - even though it was my original idea he made the track his own and has been getting some good reviews regarding it.

Should he get a pat on the back? yes he should...it certainly increased interest in some of my tracks....

As for the main DJ's I often wonder do they play live or is there a PC hidden on stage somewhere?


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Xtatica's Tracks

Old Post Dec-29-2005 14:00  England
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by Xtatica
I often wonder this as I am learning to produce Dance and trance - one of the guys I am in contact with remixed one of my tracks into a prodigy style and it sounded fantastic - even though it was my original idea he made the track his own and has been getting some good reviews regarding it.

Should he get a pat on the back? yes he should...it certainly increased interest in some of my tracks....


Well if he's remixed it, then he's a producer, and it isn't really relevant. We're talking about mixing records in a club as opposed to producing/remixing them in a studio.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Old Post Dec-29-2005 14:10  England
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Xtatica
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Essex, England

Thanks System-J - I get it now -
and there is no embarassed smiley available....


___________________
The Cheesier The Better ........
Xtatica's Tracks

Old Post Dec-29-2005 14:16  England
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Aquarian
king of no pants



Registered: May 2005
Location: Laval, Quebec

Definately agree with Ish's post.

The thing with electronic music is, there is no performer. The music is played by machines. All there is is composition and production. But for some reason people still need to praise a performer (probably a leftover from pop culture), so they have a DJ to fill in that blank.

Old Post Dec-29-2005 16:27  Canada
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RapidFire
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: toronto

what came first? The chicken or the egg?

Old Post Dec-29-2005 16:34  Serbia
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by Aquarian
Definately agree with Ish's post.

The thing with electronic music is, there is no performer. The music is played by machines. All there is is composition and production. But for some reason people still need to praise a performer (probably a leftover from pop culture), so they have a DJ to fill in that blank.


There are loads of live dance acts. I mentioned Faithless, here are a couple more:

The Prodigy
Chemical Brothers
Kosheen
Way Out West
Audio Bullys
Juno Reactor
London Elektricity
Moby
Mylo
Daft Punk
The Orb
Underworld
Lunatic Calm (split?)
Orbital (now split)
Leftfield (now split)

And they're just big-name acts off the top of my head. There are countless smaller name dance acts that play live, and most of the big guns have figured out how to go on the road.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Old Post Dec-29-2005 16:35  England
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TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Music Discussion > Who should get the most credit, the producer, or the dj?
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