quote:

Originally posted by Thois omg these results are a disgrace i'm sure you dissed lots of people who bought it, good thing I'm not one of them Mixshare.com offers free software which is 80% accurate.

in my experience with both programs, Mixedinkey 95% accurate and the Mixshare version around 80%

I will come back with a objective and full review of both programs.

kind regards
djprince,norway
www.djprince.no

quote:

Originally posted by nennon Hi Skip, thanks for the effort. Let me answer your questions below: 3A is B-flat Minor and 8B is B-flat Major. 4A is F Minor and 7B is F Major. 2A is E-flat Minor and 5B is E-flat Major. 8A is A Minor and 11B is A Major. Your results vary by scale -- Minor or Major. It is possible that both results are correct. [tONaRT] detects the key as 3A. This means that 3A could be a better fit for the duration of the song. Here's how it works: [tONaRT] looks at the total loudness of every note in the scale. It compares these results to statistical information about every key/scale. When keying songs manually, you should always check your results in several places to get more accurate results. [tONaRT] could have gotten it right by analyzing the entire song, not just one part.

the tunes are still id'd wrong. that's all i care about. if the program gives me a wrong key, then it is wrong no matter what.

quote:

Originally posted by nennon This song could be out-of-key on your computer. Are you using a high-quality MP3 or WAV file directly from BeatPort or DJDownload? It looks like the song is detuned. [tONaRT]'s key is one semi-tone below your manual result. Humans have a hard time keying "detuned" songs. Maybe this is why your result is different? You can check your C:\Program Files\Mixed In Key\Collection.xml file and look at the Standard Pitch value for that song. If it's not 440, the song is out-of-key.

431,6281
and the tune is ripped straight from the cd single like every other tune i analyzed.

quote:

Originally posted by nennon Could you please post this bug so we can fix it? To e-mail me privately, my e-mail address is [email protected]

the program just froze and wouldn't process anything. no matter what i selected it didn't do anything. i had to close it and remove everything from the list and start over for it to work.

quote:

Originally posted by nennon Mixed In Key connects to the Internet to check the value in this file: http://www.MixedInKey.com/LatestDemoVersion.txt After every release, I update this text file. If there is a new version available, Mixed In Key will show "Download New Version" button on the menu. This helps every user have the latest version. Thank you again for your effort. Please let me know if you have any questions. Yakov

i also analyzed the tunes with rapid evolution from mixshare. here's the results i got:

C(8B) Cm (5A) Dogzilla - Dogzilla (Simon Patterson & Richie Kayvan Mix) 8A
C#m(12A)! C#m (12A) Tomcraft - Loneliness (Klub Mix) 11B
Gm(6A) Dm (7A) Mauro Picotto - Back to Cali (Push Remix) 7A
D#(5B) Dm (7A) The Digital Blonde - Noctone 2A
Dm(7A)! Dm (7A) Storm - Time to Burn (Original Mix) 7A
D#m(2A)! D#m (2A) Pulser - My religion (Original Mix) 3A
A#m(3A) D#m (2A) Plastic Boy - Live another life 2A
D#m(2A)! D#m (2A) Cern - The Message (Northern Mix) 2A
D#(5B) D#m (2A) Mr Sam vs Fred Baker - Forever Waiting (M.I.K.E. Remix) this one it just wouldn't analyze for some reason!
D#(5B) D#m (2A) William Orbit - Adagio for Strings (Ferry Corsten Remix) 5B
D#m(2A)! D#m (2A) Andian - Summber Calling (Airwave Club Remix) 2A
B(1B) D#m (2A) Jens - Psycho Strings (Jens 99 Remix) 10A
F#(2B) D#m (2A) 4 Strings - (Take me away) Into the Night (Original Mix) 2A
Em(9A)! Em (9A) Darude - Sandstorm (Original Mix) 9A
Am(8A) Em (9A) Tukan - Light a rainbow (Green Court Mix) 8A
F(7B) Fm (4A) Marc Dawn - Expander (Flutlicht Remix) 7B
Bm(10A) Fm (4A) Digital Blonde - Mooga (Original Mix) 10A
Bm(10A) F#m (11A) Matt Darey - Electro Buzz 11A
D#m(2A) G#m (1A) Mauro Picotto - Pulsar 2002 (Picotto Verdi Mix) 2A
C#m(12A) G#m (1A) Push vs Globe - Tranceformation 1A
A(11B) Am (8A) DJ Tiesto - Lethal Industry (Original Mix) 8A
Dm(7A) Am (8A) Queen + Vanguard - Flash (Tomcraft Remix) 11B
Dm(7A) A#m (3A) Marco V - Godd (Original) 6B
D#m(2A) A#m (3A) Benny Benassi - Satisfaction (Isak Original) 6B
A#(6B) A#m (3A) M.I.K.E. vs John '00' Flemming - Ice Cream (Original Mix) 3A
A#(6B) A#m (3A) Blank & Jones - Cream (Long version) 3A
Em(9A) Bm (10A) Push - Strangeworld (2000 Remake) 10A
D(10B) Bm (10A) Push - Journey of Life (Rank 1 Remix) 10A
Bm(10A)! Bm (10A) Trancesetters - Roaches (Bugs in Slacker's Basement Remix) 1B

the results rapid evolution gave me are the ones in the very front. it seems to have the same problems with minor/major ja giving results that are next to the correct one. the ones with an exclamation point are correct. so only 7/29 are correct with rapid evolution from this batch.nly 24,1% not so good.
my conclusion is that it's best to do this manually as these programs don't seem to be quite good enough yet. too bad i for example am having great difficulties doing this manually as i don't know shit about music and i just can't fucking hear it for some reason!
one of my mates agreed to teach me how to do it. if that fails i'm going to have to take piano lessons.

___________________

Get Dropbox, with 250 MB extra space!

quote:

Originally posted by nennon Thois, There is no such thing as a "disgrace" in software development. The program works like it should and there are over 1000 people who downloaded it and enjoyed the results. Nearly all of our feedback e-mails have been about improving ID3 tag writing or making drag-and-drop easier to use. There have been no complaints about the accuracy of the results. In my response to Skip, I explained why his results may be different. I haven't heard back from him, but I would be happy to have a friendly discussion about it. In other words, don't bash the software that someone else has written. I am not speaking negatively about MixShare and I respect Qualia's work. Please give me the same benefit. Thank you, Yakov

Hmmm I think I was in a bad mood
Im sorry, I realise how much work you put into it, not nice of me

quote:

Originally posted by Thois Hmmm I think I was in a bad mood Im sorry, I realise how much work you put into it, not nice of me

No worries, thank you

Hi Skip,

I had a few thoughts, maybe you'll find them interesting:

quote:

the tunes are still id'd wrong. that's all i care about. if the program gives me a wrong key, then it is wrong no matter what.

There is another way to look at it. Imagine that your software is right most of the time. The algorithm says "After analyzing your songs, 6B looks like the best fit". It doesn't matter what key you're in, since your results are always compatible with each other. Your mixes will sound seamless.

quote:

431,6281 and the tune is ripped straight from the cd single like every other tune i analyzed.

If the standard pitch value is lower than 439 or over 441, the song is most likely detuned. In your case, this value is really low. Often times, music labels record CDs and vinyl incorrectly, thus altering the key. I have a few of those songs myself. I typically don't mixing them in-key, since it doesn't work.

quote:

one of my mates agreed to teach me how to do it. if that fails i'm going to have to take piano lessons.

Music theory is awesome. Software cannot replace music knowledge, but it can give you some cool ideas about mixing.



Thanks,
Yakov

yeah take a music theory class

___________________

First of all I just want to say I have no background in music theory. I downloaded mixedinkey to assist me with harmonic mixing, it sounded easy enough, just analyze your track collection and mix with the ones in the same key code. The first thing I noticed is that a lot of the tracks that the program claimed to be in the same key did not sound good mixed together. Like I said I have no background in music theory, but is it safe to assume that two tracks of the same genre and in the same key should sound great mixed together? I can only conclude that not all tracks in the same key sound great when mixed in, or simply put, this program is not very accurate. So which is it?

To be fair to the creator, even tracks in the same key can clash when mixed, but mixing in key should help improve your mixes dramatically. I personally have been mixing as a hobby for about 13-14 yrs, and only looked into harmonic mixing this year. you can certainly hear the improvement in the way the tracks fit together.

Hi all. Today is our "One Month Birthday". Mixed In Key launched exactly 30 days ago. Thank you to everyone who helped us and provided feedback. Today, we launched our "Mixed In Key Community" blog and discussion forums. Everyone is invited to come and check them out. I hope that this Community will be a useful resource for people interested in Harmonic Mixing. Here is the link: http://www.MixedInKey.com/CS/

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Now that we have programs that beatmatch for us and even match the keys for us where do we need talent anymore?

There are two ways to look at the role of a DJ: as a technician or as an artist. Technology such as MIK, RE, and MM serve to ease the technician role, thus allowing the DJ to concentrate on the artistic aspects of mixing.

After keying thousands of tracks with Mixmeister, we have found that it is overall around 60% accurate. We just initiated a Key Detection Software Comparison thread in MixingOnBeat's harmonic mixing forum, using a broader range of music styles than trance alone.

hey everybody,

i think it's great there's so much interest in harmonic mixing! learning how to hear and match the keys harmonically is almost as important as beatmatching ;-) although, i think a lot of djs do it instinctively and by trail and error... with anything this complex, it starts out as an art and shifts towards a science as people figure it out more. however, finding songs that mix well will always be an art ;-)

i think comparing these software products (i.e. mixedinkey, rapid evolution, mixmeister) on the same songs where the key is known is the best way to determine their accuracy. the more songs the better! in some comparisons done on mixshare.com on ~100 songs, both mixmeister and rapid evolution turned out to be ~60% accurate. i have not tested mixedinkey yet...

however, i think the theme here is that automatic detection is still a holy grail, and will probably be that way for a while. not to mention, learning to hear the key yourself is more valuable than anything. with that said, i want to remind everybody that the focus of rapid evolution ([[ LINK REMOVED ]]
) is not automatic key detection, as that's only a perk feature for those who choose to use it. rapid evolution is the only one of these 3 software programs that includes the tools you need to determine the keys yourself--a fully functional built in midi based keyboard. it even has shortcuts to play major/minor chords, tells you the notes you're hitting, supports microtuning, all to make determining a song's key easy without getting out of your chair ;-) it is also the only app which lets djs share these results, and benefit from each other's knowledge. until we find automatic detection that's 100% accurate, we can only really trust ourselves...

i realize rapid evolution and mixshare are not perfect, but they have come a loooong way since inception and are continually improved every day. whereas these other apps like mixmeister and mixedinkey will ask for your $$$, mixshare.com remains free and aims to be a valuable asset for the dj community.

perhaps good news too is that toneart itself is a licensable key detection algorithm. just as mixedinkey bought this for their app, i could buy it and put it in rapid evolution. i do plan to research re2's current key detection algorithm as there's always room for improvement. i am only one man, however, and have thought about making rapid evolution open source so other people can help me out...

regardless of what method you use to detect your keys, i think rapid evolution is superior in terms of managing your song collection, saving which songs work well together, and browsing harmonically compatible songs.

Last edited by qualia on Apr-27-2006 at 23:30