quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf The U.S. made the case, and the WTO agreed, that the Canadian stumpage fee system constitutes an illegal subsidy to Canadian companies. However, the Byrd Amendment, which allowed the U.S. to collect compensation for U.S. companies injured by illegal Canadian policies, is also itself illegal. Therefore it's debatable whether the $1 billion kept by U.S. companies is just compensation. The lumber industry, the provinces, and the U.S. seem to think it is a fair amount. I'll trust their judgement.

true...but (and correct me if I'm wrong), the WTO does not issue binding rulings...the other trade body (NAFTA panel?) does...and it's those binding rulings that Canada won.

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Originally posted by TO guy First off, how do you know I have nothing to do with the softwood lumber industry? Second, it would be OK for you to complain though, right? And third, the tarrifs shouldn't have been taken in the first place!! We should be getting more than the 5 billion!!!

I agree, we should have gotten all of it back. but its not going to happen.

So what is your position in relation to softwood then?

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by MarkT of all people, I'm amazed that you think it's acceptable that the U.S. essentially stole a *billion* dollars from us. That's a lot of money. we HAD a trade agreement...we HAVE a dispute resolution process...yet we had to renegotiate the deal because the U.S. didn't like it...and not even get back all of what was ILLEGALLY STOLEN from us. This is "diplomacy" or compromise to you? it's called cutting our loses and caving to the U.S. It arguably may have been the necessary thing to do at this point, but that doesn't make it "good".

Im not saying its good... im saying that its good that its resolved and that i think this is the best deal we are going to get. Its obvious bush is a reckless individual. So we either allow for this in our planning and dealings with him and work for the best we can get, or we go at him full throttle (like in the past) and come out with nothing.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I agree, we should have gotten all of it back. but its not going to happen. So what is your position in relation to softwood then?

Some of those corps are clients.

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Originally posted by TO guy Some of those corps are clients.

well from what ive been reading.. your clients are relieved and actually happy to get back what was considered lost money

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by Jayx1 well from what ive been reading.. your clients are relieved and actually happy to get back what was considered lost money

What have you been reading?

Thursdays Globe: "Ontario, Quebec and some Eastern Canada lumber companies ... have vowed to fight it"

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Originally posted by TO guy What have you been reading? Thursdays Globe: "Ontario, Quebec and some Eastern Canada lumber companies ... have vowed to fight it"

ive read the globe, the sun, and the star...

yes some people arent happy but most seem to be.

Of course some people will fight it.. thats the canadian way. bitch till you get your way 100%

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ive read the globe, the sun, and the star... yes some people arent happy but most seem to be. Of course some people will fight it.. thats the canadian way. bitch till you get your way 100%

hahahah, the Canadian way seems to be to cave into whatever the US wants!

It sounds to me that the US played a very good negotiating game here. They waited us out to gain a more favourable settlement and concessions that will grant them the protectionary measures they want dispite the free trade agreements they have signed. I guess it goes to show that if you're the economic power broker in a trad pact you really don't need to honour said pact when it acts against your interests. I believe this should be a lesson to all those intending to deal with the US.... they cannot be trusted, they do not do business fairly, and they do not respect international agreements. This should also serve as notice to all Canadians that our present government is willing to give away our soverignty in order to make friends and win votes. John Diefenbaker would be so proud of Harper.... way to back down to US Steve!

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Of course some people will fight it.. thats the canadian way. bitch till you get your way 100%

Interestingly, we had the stronger hand in these negotiations, we were in compliance with NAFTA, the US was not, the dispute mechanism was followed and a decision was made, we won, yet we backed down from collecting the award granted to us because we were afraid of pissing off the US..... sounds like our government simply gave up.

That happens in business all the time... a supplier will give discounts and favourable deals to their largest customers because the customers demand them.... eventually the supplier sufferes deminished profit makeing them more dependent on their large customers, who in turn (knowing the dependency) demand even more favourable deals..... eventually the supplier goes under or becomes a wholey owned subsiduary of the customer.

I suppose we've officially ushered in the new era of defering to the will of the US. We might as well pay them tribute and let them install a colonial govener.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I suppose we've officially ushered in the new era of defering to the will of the US. We might as well pay them tribute and let them install a colonial govener.

Oh man, if we get Jeb Bush, I'm gonna cry.

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Originally posted by TO guy What have you been reading? Thursdays Globe: "Ontario, Quebec and some Eastern Canada lumber companies ... have vowed to fight it"

That report referred to an earlier draft of the deal. The deal that was actually reached later that day was quite different.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...60427/20060428/

quote:

The so-called framework worked out Tuesday almost collapsed after Ontario publicly rejected the deal as unfair to the province's lumber industry, and companies in Quebec and British Columbia denounced its terms. An amended package that improved Ontario and Quebec market shares and lessened a penalty seen as discriminatory against British Columbia was tabled Thursday morning.

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Harper later announced that he received the support of British Columbia, Ontario and Quebec -- the top lumber producing provinces in the nation.

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Ontario's Natural Resources Minister David Ramsay, who voiced his fierce opposition to an earlier, leaked version of the deal, expressed optimism Thursday.

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