One thing I must say, that liberal lead "One tonne challenge" was a HUGE waste of money, and I am glad the conservatives scraped it.

Unless you were a home owner, with command over the construction of your house, there was very little in the challenge for you. I was excited about a program which would help Canadians lower their emmissions, but it didnt help anybody.

As somebody who rents, bikes/busses everywhere, there was nothing more for me to do. Maybe thats the truth, but they should have also included sections which addressed more physical/visable pollution.

We need to tackle the fast food industry! The amount of garbage created by Timmy's or any other place is just crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko We need to tackle the fast food industry! The amount of garbage created by Timmy's or any other place is just crazy.

+1

The fact that the litter is used as advertising space is ridiculous. And because the cost of the meal is less then whatever the amount is they're not charged a tax (pardon the memory lapse.. not sure whether its gst/pst). McD's Wendy's Timmy's have no responsibility over the garbage that they create....

There are SO SO SO many ways that the environment can be saved... and although i dont ascribe to the view of some environmental economists that money is everywhere and people are just choosing not to make it... there are a lot of angles and iniatives that are just dismissed, but plans such as the energuide were pushed through... mainly due to liberal sympathizers and constituents making money...

lex

quote:

Originally posted by Orko Thats exactly what I was thinking, but then the idea comes up of cutting your losses. Here it just depends on what you think is best, continue to spend money and improve the sysetm, or scrap it and come up with a whole new one. Continued projects vs saving money. It is very hard to decide which one in the end will provide the greater good to the Canadian taxpayer. The conservatives have said they were not happy with the liberal take on environmental issues, nor the world's views considering they are pushing for their own guidliens and plans. What are these plans? I am not against a conservative lead environment plan, I just want to see a firm plan in place to aid in reducing Canada's pollution. In respect to these audits, what exactly are they auditing?

The audits are to ensure compliance with the program goals in order for you to receive the grant, tax break or whatever incentive a particular program offers...i.e installing better windows, high efficiency furnace, etc. CMHC currently offers something similar for homeowners as well.

My problem with the CPC isn't the scrapping of programs...hey, if something doesn't work, or is a money pit, by all means scrap it.

The problem I have with the CPC gov't is that it is are either suddenly scrapping programs that it intially supported, like Energuide...or they're scrapping them without releasing ANY details of their own planned replacement programs (assuming the CPC even has conceptualized replacements, that is), as with Kyoto and the First Nations deal the Liberals hammered out with the provinces and First Nations peoples.

Now Harper is walking away from his "patronage review" plan, simply becuase the person he touted for the job was dismissed in a non-binding vote?!? Meh...that's another topic.

I'd guess that I'd like to see some replacement initiatives before the CPC scraps anything else...

conservative Party, have you ever really liked a person who was considered "conservative"? No. Follow the mistake of millions of americans who wish now that they could redo their vote for bush, and fix it next time around.

33% auditing costs is not all that high...especially when dealing with a program of this size. Ideally, the conservatives should have found a way to streamline the auditing procress. In the long run this will all cost more money because you are starting from scratch again......the start up costs will be huge and yet we will not see any of those numbers. Harper is sneaky.....with each day I get more and more scared about what he is hiding....if he ever gets a majority government I think I will have to move.

Are you telling me that these guys can no longer lie to everybody about vehicle fuel economy ratings? Golly gee that's a shame!

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Please show me your evidence that it is mainly "Liberal friendly" auditors and firms who have been, and would contintue to be, benefiting from this program.

Funny, I never mentioned any "Liberal friendly" auditors or firms.
Please quote where you figure I said such a thing?
Unless you're refering my mention of civil servants and the Red Toronto Star...(everybody knows the Red Star is a Liberal paper).

quote:

sure, there *could* be...just like there *could* be a new deal for the Natives...just like there *could* be new environmental initiatives.

Speaking of natives, I'd sure like to see where all money went that they received...and yes, there could be new environmental initiatives!

quote:

The problem is that in the meantime there nothing. Personally, I'd like to *at least* see a replacement proposal before they just go ahead a scrap an existing intiative (an initiative that they themselves supported!)

I don't blame anyone for supporting it, but I'm willing to bet that was BEFORE they found out how much it was costing...

quote:

if the audits cost too much, then how about addressing those costs instead of scapping the program? Farm out the audits to those "leaner firms" of which you speak. How many businesses are now negatively impacted by suddenly scrapping this program that had, until the CPC took office, support from all parties, AFAIK?

Negatively impacted on a gimmie program? I sure hope businesses aren't running a budget based on that program!
It was an incentive, not a business plan...

quote:

Here we apparently had a successful program that had widespread support...that provided concrete incentives for people to take an active role in energy conservation...now it's gone...with nothing yet tabled to replace it.

I never said it wasn't a good idea, in fact, I did!
It was the execution of the plan and it's processes that rang the death knell for that program.

Speaking of death knell, how about that lovely Gun Registry!
The Auditor General pretty much gave the past government a big fat "F" even with Billions of extra dollars in their coffers.
Where'd all the money go??
The AG's report even mentions lack of accountability in several programs and many concerns in others.
It's programs like EnerGuide, while a great idea (I'll just stress that again) needed to be run a lot leaner than it obviously was.
The current government obviously trimmed the fat off the pork for that one and figured that blatant, bloated programs have to go.
I have have no doubt they'll find more, but the AG has pretty much pointed them out already...

Should there be an alternative, absolutely!
I hope they do come out with one, but let's not cry foul on something so brazenly wasteful either...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r ...That's right folks, they are telling us that 33 percent of the grants went just to public-sector union taxpayer-paid liberal-hired bureaucrats? Each year? Just for the audits? Fully one third? And that’s not even counting the cost to dole out the cash through the liberal-left bureacracy, advertise it through liberal-friendly ad firms...

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Please show me your evidence that it is mainly "Liberal friendly" auditors and firms who have been, and would contintue to be, benefiting from this program ...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Funny, I never mentioned any "Liberal friendly" auditors or firms. Please quote where you figure I said such a thing? Unless you're refering my mention of civil servants and the Red Toronto Star...(everybody knows the Red Star is a Liberal paper).

did I completely misread something there?

no, seriously...if I did, I apologize, but that's what it seems you're implying...that Liberal hires (although that work appears to be privately carried out, e.g. the link below) rec'd 1/3 of the money? of course, if this were true, they'd receive even more once the program was to be expended to pay for entire retrofits, not just the audits, for low income homeowners.

http://homeperformance.com/en/energuide/included.html

Last edited by MarkT on May-17-2006 at 05:35

I say good.

Taxpayers should not be subsidizing new furnaces and dishwashers nor should they be subsidizing little jimmy's daycare.

Yes thats right, i dont even agree with the conservatives $1200 a year scheme either.

Im glad we are becoming less of a nanny state. Maybe it will force people to actually take more responsibility for themselves.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I say good. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing new furnaces and dishwashers nor should they be subsidizing little jimmy's daycare. Yes thats right, i dont even agree with the conservatives $1200 a year scheme either. Im glad we are becoming less of a nanny state. Maybe it will force people to actually take more responsibility for themselves.

I think you have completly missed the point of a program like this. The fact is, helping somebody buy a new furnace really does not improve their lives on a daily basis. Who would think they are happier cause their furnace now costs them $5 less/month in heating bills?

This is to get Canada to move towards becoming a more efficient country as a whole. Nobody was being forced to do so, it was all volantary.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Im glad we are becoming less of a nanny state. Maybe it will force people to actually take more responsibility for themselves.

Maybe they should just repeal the Canada Health Act while they are at it..

___________________
"It's mercifully over. But a new phenomenon has taken hold. I recognize it: feelings. Now that they're back, even overcompensating, I never want to lose them again. Bitterness, anger, jealousy, sadness: They all make me happy."

quote:

Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Maybe they should just repeal the Canada Health Act while they are at it..

well at the rate we are going we are going to lose public medicare...

so we either reform it our way, or it reforms on its own... and we dont want option 2... trust me

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill