quote:

Originally posted by Danny Ocean This debate has been made before. Trance and Classical have nothing in common, and they are not equivalent in anyway. Period. You're an ignorant waste of a human being if you think otherwise.

Ah, okay. I wasn't really debating anyone, just stating my opinion.

And we can all see how valid your opinion is by your last sentence. I feel dirty and trolled having even replied to it. <3

PLUR ~ ~ ~ !

There's certainly influence there, especially when it comes to big epic and melodic trance from the late 90s onward. As for psy, tribal, tech, darker and older kinds of trance, along with house music, techo and most EDM in general, if you want to draw a comparison, it should be with tribal music. It's been around for possibly millions of year - and this would just be a modern interpretation of it, coupled with modern influences like melodic elements.

OH GOD....


HOW THE HELL can trance be compared to classical i still can't understand?!?!?!I mean...how the complex evolving harmonic arrangements(comprised by giant orchestras with each and every man playing a note or a sequence of notes at a specific time!) of Mozart, tchaikovsky, beethoven(vivaldi was a bit simpler but still complex), brahms and the even more complex epic symphonies of mahler, wagner, berlioz, brahms or the unpredictable impressionistic works of debussy (with the melody changing in unpredictable ways every 2 secs.)be compared to a 4-note(!) riff that arpeggiates, just because a random guy pressed the "arpeggiate" button in fl-studio or the other "tracker" think that mirco de govia produces over a 4-4 bit...THIS IS PURE HERESSY OMG!!!!!!!!!EVIL...Stop this madness now!!!Trance is just club music guys...nothing more nothing less...

The only thing it could slightly relate to (and i mean really slightlllyyy)is the 20th century american minimalism of philip glass, john adams, steve reich etc. etc. etc. but still the relations between these are no bigger than...say e.g. a modern rock group like coldplay (who as well use simple minimalistic melancholic riffs but actually a bit more complex than trance as they don't press "buttons") to these american composers.

A very good example in my opinion as something modern close to classical or orchestral music in general (oohh by the way "classical" or "orchestral" music is not the same to "soundtrack" music like say e.g "vangelis"-who is very good but extremely simplistic in relatio to classical, ot say "hans Zimmer" or "John Williams" who are hm...just thieves of classical works and simple-epic-big-hollywood-theme-by-numbers-creating-machines)is the genre of "post-rock"(which is def. not rock) and i mean names like "Godspeed You Black Emperor"(ALL of you have to buy or even download the amazing double album with the name "Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven"- an epic symphonic piece of art by a bunch of arounf 10+ enigmatic canadian musicians), "Explosions in the Sky", "Sigur Ros"(although more "rock" structure) and "Silver Mount Zion" with long 10-20 minute evolving arrangements with slow passages evolving to crescendos and stuff... sample-

Explosions in the Sky- "Yasmin the Light" http://www.explosionsinthesky.com/m...minTheLight.mp3

An even more profound relation is the genre of "symphonic post-rock" with bands like "Rachel's" (who are comprised by 17 musicians!) here are same samples- http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/sto...,254834,00.html
and "Clogs"-although these are more "minimalist"
philip glass-wise.

Anyway's...i can see the excitement of some new people when they hear instrumental melodic music (such as trance), they can get easily impressed these days, especially when the majority of todays "radio" music is quite stupid formulaic simple songs,garage, r'n'b and stuff, but still,trance is just mainstream music to dance to...there is muuuccchhh mooore music out there you know!!!

I completely agree. Just because it's instrumental doesn't mean it's classical. Just because you hear arpeggiation doesn't mean it's classical. Just because it's not pop doesn't mean it's classical.

Seriously, EDM is possibly the most rigid style of music ever. You're limited to a 4/4 beat at 120-140 bpms. Anything else isn't as danceable.

Plus, you're looping 4/8/16 beats over 3-8 minute intervals. It's the same phrase over and over again. The drumline gets repeated for 256 beats or whatever. You don't see that kind of rigidness in classical music. By classical, I'm using the more general term (ie. Mozart, Beethoven-type classical + baroque + romantic + 20th century).

Try to understand a Bach fugue, or a Beethoven sonata. The level of complexity does not compare. Take Gouryella - Ligaya for example. Sounds very classical, but it only has about what...32 bars of (one-note) melody repeated over 5 min, a chord change every 8 beats, etc.

I don't listen to EDM for the lyrical/stylistic aspect. I enjoy it because it's fun and catchy. I enjoy the sound engineering aspect of EDM, but hell no, I don't listen to it for musical intellectualism.

quote:

Originally posted by cherrybarry I completely agree. Just because it's instrumental doesn't mean it's classical. Just because you hear arpeggiation doesn't mean it's classical. Just because it's not pop doesn't mean it's classical. Seriously, EDM is possibly the most rigid style of music ever. You're limited to a 4/4 beat at 120-140 bpms. Anything else isn't as danceable. Plus, you're looping 4/8/16 beats over 3-8 minute intervals. It's the same phrase over and over again. The drumline gets repeated for 256 beats or whatever. You don't see that kind of rigidness in classical music. By classical, I'm using the more general term (ie. Mozart, Beethoven-type classical + baroque + romantic + 20th century). Try to understand a Bach fugue, or a Beethoven sonata. The level of complexity does not compare. Take Gouryella - Ligaya for example. Sounds very classical, but it only has about what...32 bars of (one-note) melody repeated over 5 min, a chord change every 8 beats, etc. I don't listen to EDM for the lyrical/stylistic aspect. I enjoy it because it's fun and catchy. I enjoy the sound engineering aspect of EDM, but hell no, I don't listen to it for musical intellectualism.

this is the worst generalization ive heard. Its pretty naive to think that you won't find musical intellectualism in electronica.

did i not say i enjoy it for sound exploration? but that's not musical intellectualism in my book. ppl need to stop glorifying every single interest they have.

Holy shit. i didnt mean to start a bloodbath. Obviously you either see a connection or you dont. Let me clarify what i was trying to say. While there are endless reasons why EDM and Classical arent alike, DOES NOT MEAN that there is no connection what so ever. If I never learned how to play the piano, I probably would have never gotten into this genre to begin with. You guys have to go past the 4 to the floor *ooohn tick* that most of you are focusing on. I am a huge lover of impressionistic music. I have studied Debussy's and Ravel's works extensively. If any of you look into what impressionistic music is, its music that tries to convey a feeling through notes and melody. (unlike romantic, which tries to describe an actual event) Is that not what trance producers basically try to emulate? Dont they try to lift you up or take you to some tropical island somewhere? Or plunge you underwater or just seem to make you want to fight someone with a blunt weapon? If you need a practical example, isnt the point of it too get you in the mood to dance!? Besides Classical and EDM, how many other styles successfully attempt the same thing? Green Day isnt trying to give you wings. Lil' Jon isnt sending you into space. and contrary to popular thought, fiddy cent aint takin' you to atlantis. While EDM is elementary and not nearly as deep when compared to something such as Ravels "Une Barque sur la ocean" or Debussy's "La Cathedral Engloutie", it does the same thing: it tries to convey a feeling. and that is a connection. period.

Last edited by DJ Roco on Jun-11-2006 at 06:43

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN OH GOD.... HOW THE HELL can trance be compared to classical i still can't understand?!?!?!I mean...how the complex evolving harmonic arrangements(comprised by giant orchestras with each and every man playing a note or a sequence of notes at a specific time!) of Mozart, tchaikovsky, beethoven(vivaldi was a bit simpler but still complex), brahms and the even more complex epic symphonies of mahler, wagner, berlioz, brahms or the unpredictable impressionistic works of debussy (with the melody changing in unpredictable ways every 2 secs.)be compared to a 4-note(!) riff that arpeggiates, just because a random guy pressed the "arpeggiate" button in fl-studio or the other "tracker" think that mirco de govia produces over a 4-4 bit...THIS IS PURE HERESSY OMG!!!!!!!!!EVIL...Stop this madness now!!!Trance is just club music guys...nothing more nothing less...

woops, did we tick off another classical snob?

I doubt you've ever really taken the time to analyse the complexity involved in both genres. Like most people you've just been brainwashed with this concept that composers like Mozart were like demi-gods and that classical music is superior and more 'intellectual' than all else. A concept not much different than the kind of DJ-worship that's often criticised on this board. Truth is - you wouldn't know musical genius if it hit you in the face, because you're stuck with this snobbist idea.

If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, then don't. If you're going to spew your 1950's mentality then at least try and back it up with arguments and examples.

quote:

Originally posted by cherrybarry I completely agree. Just because it's instrumental doesn't mean it's classical. Just because you hear arpeggiation doesn't mean it's classical. Just because it's not pop doesn't mean it's classical. Seriously, EDM is possibly the most rigid style of music ever. You're limited to a 4/4 beat at 120-140 bpms. Anything else isn't as danceable. Plus, you're looping 4/8/16 beats over 3-8 minute intervals. It's the same phrase over and over again. The drumline gets repeated for 256 beats or whatever. You don't see that kind of rigidness in classical music. By classical, I'm using the more general term (ie. Mozart, Beethoven-type classical + baroque + romantic + 20th century). Try to understand a Bach fugue, or a Beethoven sonata. The level of complexity does not compare. Take Gouryella - Ligaya for example. Sounds very classical, but it only has about what...32 bars of (one-note) melody repeated over 5 min, a chord change every 8 beats, etc. I don't listen to EDM for the lyrical/stylistic aspect. I enjoy it because it's fun and catchy. I enjoy the sound engineering aspect of EDM, but hell no, I don't listen to it for musical intellectualism.

i see your points, but man you are WAAAAAYYYY off in some respects. i listen to EDM for "musical intellectualism"

and generalizing all EDM into "You're limited to a 4/4 beat at 120-140 bpms." is just nonsense. EDM is by far the most eclectic genre of modern music today. that's why i listen to it.

some people think that music has to follow certain rules, and that's bullshit. music is music, regardless of what key, tempo, time sig., whatever is in. the ugliest, most dissonant sounding shit song is still music.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Roco Holy shit. i didnt mean to start a bloodbath. Obviously you either see a connection or you dont. Let me clarify what i was trying to say. While there are endless reasons why EDM and Classical arent alike, DOES NOT MEAN that there is no connection what so ever. If I never learned how to play the piano, I probably would have never gotten into this genre to begin with. You guys have to go past the 4 to the floor *ooohn tick* that most of you are focusing on. I am a huge lover of impressionistic music. I have studied Debussy's and Ravel's works extensively. If any of you look into what impressionistic music is, its music that tries to convey a feeling through notes and melody. (unlike romantic, which tries to describe an actual event) Is that not what trance producers basically try to emulate? Dont they try to lift you up or take you to some tropical island somewhere? Or plunge you underwater or just seem to make you want to fight someone with a blunt weapon? If you need a practical example, isnt the point of it too get you in the mood to dance!? Besides Classical and EDM, how many other styles successfully attempt the same thing? Green Day isnt trying to give you wings. Lil' Jon isnt sending you into space. and contrary to popular thought, fiddy cent aint takin' you to atlantis. While EDM is elementary and not nearly as deep when compared to something such as Ravels "Une Barque sur la ocean" or Debussy's "La Cathedral Engloutie", it does the same thing: it tries to convey a feeling. and that is a connection. period.

This is a fucking good post.

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quote:

Originally posted by teegee sometimes, i sit on my hand until its numb and then masturbate...i call that a stranger.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Roco Holy shit. i didnt mean to start a bloodbath. Obviously you either see a connection or you dont. Let me clarify what i was trying to say. While there are endless reasons why EDM and Classical arent alike, DOES NOT MEAN that there is no connection what so ever.

Like I already said - there is a very vague connection with a very small amount of trance that borrows some classical elements. Most of it just doesn't have a connection, though.

quote:

Besides Classical and EDM, how many other styles successfully attempt the same thing? Green Day isnt trying to give you wings. Lil' Jon isnt sending you into space. and contrary to popular thought, fiddy cent aint takin' you to atlantis.

How do you know that the fans of those artists aren't feeling those things? You cannot make an assumption like that simply because they don't do it to you. People who hate EDM say the exact same thing about the stuff we like. It's just an opinion, it doesn't mean anything.

quote:

While EDM is elementary and not nearly as deep when compared to something such as Ravels "Une Barque sur la ocean" or Debussy's "La Cathedral Engloutie", it does the same thing: it tries to convey a feeling. and that is a connection. period.

All music tries to convey a feeling. It's not a connection.

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