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techead
HouseMusic all night long



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: The Frozen North

So whats to stop the cops once this bill is in place seizing every performance car (or any car for that matter) that they catch exceeding the speed limit and accusing the driver of "street racing" . Who will put controls in place It a certainty that this law will be abused at some point.

Old Post Jun-16-2006 03:22 
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VERTiG0
cunning linguist.



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: no longer Cambridge, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Euphorica
oh noes, you have a 140 whp civic...


Hahah keep reaching for that rainbow!

Old Post Jun-16-2006 03:24  Canada
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Euphorica
Next level beats



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: GTA


___________________
Trance in my pants

Old Post Jun-16-2006 05:46  Canada
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
If you think Street racing (how they portray on the news)is some super problem(epidemic)
YOU ARE A MORON


very true


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Jun-16-2006 07:15  Canada
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nacarter
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2004
Location:

A couple of people need a little perspective here.

This law isn't about going after people in peformance cars. There's already a law in place for that - if you have illegal components on your car, you lose 'em.

This law is for the handful of idiots out there that are causing problems. If you're not causing problems, why should you care? You should want the idiots to get busted because they make the legitimate afficianados look bad.

Why do I feel so strongly on this issue? I witnessed a street racing fatality about six years ago. I used to have to get up at 3:30 in the morning to get to my job at the airport. On my way to work one morning two vehicles were tearing up Eglinton Ave. This wasn't a case of two vehicles driving over the speed limit and they just happened to be together, they were both flying at 180 on a residential street. the front vehicle swerved and went into a telephone pole, killing both in the car instantly.

You don't forget the sound of the guy's girlfriend in the car behind them screaming.

I personally sanction tough measures on criminal stupidity - you should too!

Old Post Jun-16-2006 12:26  Canada
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Tranceplanted
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto

Does this apply to all motor vehicles? I see more people "racing" on motorcycles than I ever will witness in cars, at least in the summer.

My question here is how does this help? There is a culture of driving ignorance in this country among most drivers. Young kids who don't understand the abilities of themselves or the vehicles they are driving, to older drivers with bad habits and merely creating unsafe situations on the road. (Just observe on the Gardiner or the 401 how many people are doing something other than driving.) Legislation, last I checked, doesn't stop people from being stupid. What I'd rather see is some real driving lessons for people become mandatory. None of this driver's ed crap, because I'm sorry, parallel parking isn't going to teach you what you need to do when you're doing 110 and you need to avoid some trouble in front of you.

If people realized some of the inherent issues with their car by actually driving them in a manner that lets them display both their and the car's glaring weaknesses (in a controlled setting), maybe that change to wider tires in the summer and actually getting some proper tires in the winter, opposed to the all season crap that most have on the vehicles might not look so bad. Or perhaps it might cause them to actually drive in a manner that stops endangering those around them. Just my 2 cents.

Old Post Jun-16-2006 15:05  Canada
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MarkT
Automatic Static



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto

wow...did anyone read this (or maybe I'm behind). This is not at all meant to excuse street racing at all...I think the ******s got off *really* easy here...but:

This situation is *absurd*. Do they publicly demolish the fucking cars of people convicted of DUI involving injury or death? Not AFAIK (If I'm wrong, someone correct me and I'll retract, lol).

So...34 street racing related deaths in the GTA since 1999...hmmmm...how many deaths have been related to DUI? speeding? Do we seize and demolish those cars? NO.

This is an absolutely disgusting abuse of power and is highly discriminatory. If I was the owner of those cars, I would pursue legal action (despite my own conviction). The law may be on the books, but to selectively apply it as authorities have done in this case is completley unacceptable and is unreasonably punitive and strictly for public show.

Why won't they do this with DUIs? Because the general public is (consciously or not) more tolerant of DUI than street racing, given the media coverage...in that more people drink and drive than street race...and most people street racers are young people...and it's easy for the older population to stomach punishing "punk kids" and their flashy cars than people in their own peer group who just like to have a few drinks.

disgusting...btw..."$2500 in modifications" and "more than $5000 in modifications" means JACK SHIT on it's own. You could easily spend that on tire and wheels...or it could be a full, custom turbo system. Not qualifying that remark with specifics is irresponsible reporting.

quote:
A flat-out street-racing fight
Police seize cars under crime law
MPP revs up push for street-racing bill
Jun. 16, 2006. 09:14 AM
SAN GREWAL
STAFF REPORTER


Just before the latest big-budget street-racing movie hit big screens today, 20 tonnes of the law was brought down on two illegally modified cars confiscated after their owners were caught racing.

Yesterday's public demolition in Markham was the first time in Ontario that seized racing cars (valued at almost $50,000) have been destroyed using a law that was originally designed to curb organized crime.

"I know one thing," Attorney General Michael Bryant said at the demolition, "that on the weekend, these cars won't be back on the streets again."

But with 34 street racing-related deaths around the GTA since 1999 and no provincial legislation to specifically address the problem, one MPP said crushing of two Honda Civics using a law meant for something else is nothing more than a "dog-and-pony" show.

With the release of The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift, the third instalment in the Fast and the Furious franchise that glorifies the culture of modified street-racing cars, calls for tougher laws to stop the trend are mounting.

"This stunt is an insult to the victims and their families and an embarrassment to the government," said Oak Ridges MPP Frank Klees, the former Progressive Conservative transportation minister who last week introduced a private members bill to curb illegal street racing.

Three weeks ago, Rob and Lisa Manchester, constituents in Klees's riding, were killed in what police suspect was a street race.

Klees's two requests this week for his bill to receive unanimous consent — rarely given to private members' bills — were both denied. The bill has not yet been given a second reading.

The cars destroyed yesterday were seized under provincial legislation called the Civil Remedies Act, which was passed in 2002 to help confiscate equipment used in organized crime, particularly illegal marijuana grow operations.

Both of the modified vehicles were involved in illegal street-racing incidents: one in Markham in 2003, the other in Vaughan in 2004. The drivers were convicted of offences under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (one was also convicted of dangerous driving under the Criminal Code of Canada).

One driver had his licence suspended for four months, while the other received a $1,000 fine and had his licence suspended for six months.

The attorney general asked the Ontario Superior Court of Justice — which found the cars to be "instruments of unlawful activity" under the act — to order their forfeiture to the Crown.

The Civil Remedies Act was then amended in Dec. 2005 to allow for the destruction of seized property, such as the two cars crushed yesterday.

Bryant says his government is sending a clear message.

"We are targeting cars modified to clearly be used for unlawful purposes — street racing."

But Klees says if the government is serious about curbing street racing it wouldn't be using a law that doesn't directly address the increasing use of after-market products such as nitrous oxide fuel systems.

Minister of Transportation Donna Cansfield says she fully supports Klees's efforts to combat illegal street racing.

The bill Klees introduced last week would allow police to issue "on-the-spot licence suspensions" to anyone suspected of street racing, would allow police to impound cars and would provide for fines up to $2,000, and a six-month jail term.

It would also ban nitrous oxide systems, which can drastically boost the horsepower and acceleration of modified cars.

Under legislation proposed by Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government, street racers would face longer licence suspensions and those who kill someone could get sentenced to life in prison.

For a first offence, drivers may have licences suspended for a year, two years for a second offence and three for a third.

"The owner of one of the (destroyed) cars actually had a year's opportunity to put it back to street legal. But he said he didn't want to be slowed down," said York Region Police Sgt. Dave Mitchell. "The drivers were using them for their intended purpose — street racing."

Both of the vehicles are Honda CRX Civics and retail for about $20,000. One had about $2,500 in modifications, the other more than $5,000.

Old Post Jun-16-2006 18:54  Canada
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TO guy
JELO owns me



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto

I agree with you Mark, but the article starts it off here

quote:
20 tonnes of the law was brought down on two illegally modified cars confiscated after their owners were caught racing.


If an illegally modified car hit and killed someone in a DUI situation, I think it would be an open question as to whehter they would detroy that car as well.

If they don't act along those lines, then yeah, it sure sounds like cruel and unusual punishment, and would not likely stand up to a charter challenge.

Old Post Jun-16-2006 19:20  Canada
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Tranceplanted
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by MarkT
wow...did anyone read this (or maybe I'm behind). This is not at all meant to excuse street racing at all...I think the ******s got off *really* easy here...but:

This situation is *absurd*. Do they publicly demolish the fucking cars of people convicted of DUI involving injury or death? Not AFAIK (If I'm wrong, someone correct me and I'll retract, lol).

So...34 street racing related deaths in the GTA since 1999...hmmmm...how many deaths have been related to DUI? speeding? Do we seize and demolish those cars? NO.

This is an absolutely disgusting abuse of power and is highly discriminatory. If I was the owner of those cars, I would pursue legal action (despite my own conviction). The law may be on the books, but to selectively apply it as authorities have done in this case is completley unacceptable and is unreasonably punitive and strictly for public show.

Why won't they do this with DUIs? Because the general public is (consciously or not) more tolerant of DUI than street racing, given the media coverage...in that more people drink and drive than street race...and most people street racers are young people...and it's easy for the older population to stomach punishing "punk kids" and their flashy cars than people in their own peer group who just like to have a few drinks.

disgusting...btw..."$2500 in modifications" and "more than $5000 in modifications" means JACK SHIT on it's own. You could easily spend that on tire and wheels...or it could be a full, custom turbo system. Not qualifying that remark with specifics is irresponsible reporting.


I agree completely! Lest we forget that 5 grand in stereo equipment isn't unheard of. Not saying that it makes any difference in a street race, other than make a car heavier, slower and handle worse, but the lack of the qualifying statement is complete garbage reporting.

Old Post Jun-16-2006 19:21  Canada
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Euphorica
Next level beats



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: GTA

"illegally modified" with what? Sure there are lots of part labeled for off road use only but not many people use them . where you can pick up a turbo kit and bolt on and go from there. Its not labeled as for off road use only.

so , someone bolted on a racing 1 lbs*exaggerated* flywheel. big whoops. its there fault when it exloads and takes out there legs. But if they race and hurt someone...its the cars fault? No its not. ITs the drivers.



This law is dumb because it gives powers to cops to sieze your car if you are "suspected" of street racing. thats COMPLETE BULLSHIT. that menas if a cop is having a bad day he can fuck up your YEAR if he wants(oh and they will if this goes through) . Yes the police can already sieze your car if you are caught street racing...or if its unsafe, but now it gives tthem the right to decide what racing is and isnt. LAME! So if im going to merge onto the highway at 2am and decide to do a spritied entrance onto the highway I can lose my licence and have my car siezed? Fuck that.

Seriously if this goes through there are going to be MORE deaths from highspeed pursuits because people arent gonna give up so easily.

If you race and get in accident ..fine you should get in trouble, but those who like to have a little fun when NO ONE else is around in the middle of nowhere ...then I see no reason why they should get in trouble.

and like the other article i posted about mentioned.. its everyone else we should be afraid of.


___________________
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Old Post Jun-16-2006 20:04  Canada
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MarkT
Automatic Static



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto

^^^ exactly.

quote:
Originally posted by TO guy
I agree with you Mark, but the article starts it off here



If an illegally modified car hit and killed someone in a DUI situation, I think it would be an open question as to whehter they would detroy that car as well.

If they don't act along those lines, then yeah, it sure sounds like cruel and unusual punishment, and would not likely stand up to a charter challenge.


yeah, but the problem is that virtually all modifications are deemed illegal...the law is very vague. It's especially silly, given that an "illegaly modified" car can actually be MUCH safer than a regular car...and there is zero regulation or definition on car modification. Car companies build a car to a certain standard and many aftermarket parts, properly installed, are of a *much* higher quality and improve not only performance, but SAFETY.

I had a near $1k full suspension kit on one of my previous cars (along with some other minor bolt-on mods)...handling was so noticeably improved, it wasn't funny. To me, I'm in a better position to avoid an accident or lose control of my car than the average driver...but others will make a blanket statement that I did it so I can drive faster and street race

I could put a bigger brake kit on my car, IMPROVING braking...that's an illegal modification, by the law's standards.

If you buy a car with a factory roll bar (many convertibles) it's a safety feature...you install roll bars yourself, it's "illegaly modified".

pretty much ALL modificatons are deemed illegal...the law is quite vague...and you can bet that the gov't is sure not going to pursue legislation to aid car enthusiasts...it just doesn't sound as good to the paranoid public as an unnecessary street racing bill.

People put ugly wings and body kits on their car that cost *thousands* of dollars...that doesn't impact safety...but they'll now possibly seize and destroy the car if you race it? it's laughable unless they're going to start destroying the cars of people caught DUI or speeding and causing injury or death.

99% of insurers won't touch a modified car (understandable from a business standpoint...they can't be bothered to deal with one-offs...they want a factory car with known standards...it's too costly to write unique policies and not worth their time).

But when you get into stereotyping car enthusiasts as punks who modify their car to street race, that's a problem, IMHO.

Old Post Jun-16-2006 20:43  Canada
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Anti street racing bill
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