quote:

Originally posted by DJSentinel Well in Minor, you lower the third, the sixth, and the seventh a half step. So.. CMAJOR) C-D-E-F-G-A-B CMINOR) C-D-D#-F-G-G#-A# This applies to all Major and Minor scales.

yike that's the most atrocious spelling of the C minor scale i've ever seen.

the major in C (all white keys):

C D E F G A B C

the minor scale FLATS those notes as you said above however, thier spellings would be as FLATS ie:

C D Eb F G Ab Bb C

YOU MUST GO ALPHABETICALLY WHEN CONTRUCTING ANY SCALE

for instance

G MAJOR is spelled

G A B C D E F# G (see the alphabet F(#) THEN G)

NOT NOT NOT

G A B C D E Gb G (you did not go alphabetically and cannot repete note names)

I'm an aspiring producer and just put out my first album although I'm a guitar, piano, and theory teacher for a living, and have classical training as well as a background in composition. Any questions anyone may have, i'd be glad to help out with. =)

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Quick stupid n00b questions, just to make sure:

Once I have picked a scale:
1)Can I use any combination of the keys in that scale? There is no order or something?
2) All notes should be in that scale right, also the bassline etc?
3) If there are 2 notes at the same time, for example: instrument and bassline. Can I use any combination of the keys of the scale then for each note apart, or is that what chord theory is for (to make it harmonic)?

I am asking question 3 because everywhere I have read that chords are for making single instruments more powerful (give it a fuller sound). But I have read nowhere that chords are also for instrument/bassline combinations etc. But when I use any notes of the scale, it sucks.

YES
NO
YES

quote:

Originally posted by Channel Surfer yike that's the most atrocious spelling of the C minor scale i've ever seen. the major in C (all white keys): C D E F G A B C the minor scale FLATS those notes as you said above however, thier spellings would be as FLATS ie: C D Eb F G Ab Bb C YOU MUST GO ALPHABETICALLY WHEN CONTRUCTING ANY SCALE for instance G MAJOR is spelled G A B C D E F# G (see the alphabet F(#) THEN G) NOT NOT NOT G A B C D E Gb G (you did not go alphabetically and cannot repete note names) I'm an aspiring producer and just put out my first album although I'm a guitar, piano, and theory teacher for a living, and have classical training as well as a background in composition. Any questions anyone may have, i'd be glad to help out with. =)

Well if you want to be so fucking correct then yes you are right, but maybe you should be looking to help others and not waste your time correcting every mistake I make. I could go on for hours about you not using correct english grammar when you post, which I don't think you used a single period during your whole post to end your sentences, but I won't because it's the message that counts here. If I really wanted to I would post scales in Hz :-P.

Burn me.

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whoa man wasn't trying to come on strong, sorry. however misinformation can be really bad for ppl trying to learn. and if you read my entire, poor grammar, post, you'd see my whole intention was to offer my sevices to anyone with any questions....hopefully we can bury this here becuz no likes it when an otherwise valuable thread turns into a flame war. once again, my apology.

___________________
OUT NOW ON TVR ::
The Anthem Smash for the End of 08
Michael Conway- AUTUMN + Channel's Breaks Mix

LIVE:
10.11 TRINITY, SEA
11.02 AC Lounge, SD
11.04 THE BOOM ROOM w. Reid Speed, LA
11.21 WHITE OUT 6, SEA
03.07 PIRATES OF PUGET SOUND 3, SEA

www.beatport.com/label/televisionary+records

quote:

Originally posted by Thois Quick stupid n00b questions, just to make sure: Once I have picked a scale: 1)Can I use any combination of the keys in that scale? There is no order or something? 2) All notes should be in that scale right, also the bassline etc? 3) If there are 2 notes at the same time, for example: instrument and bassline. Can I use any combination of the keys of the scale then for each note apart, or is that what chord theory is for (to make it harmonic)? I am asking question 3 because everywhere I have read that chords are for making single instruments more powerful (give it a fuller sound). But I have read nowhere that chords are also for instrument/bassline combinations etc. But when I use any notes of the scale, it sucks.

nah man, no stupid questions here...

1) to begin with refer to notes in the scale as either notes, tones, or degrees. Keys, although they do refer to piano keys, means the tonal centers around which the given scale is built ie C is a key, Dm is a key etc. a scale run like C Eb F G Bb is NOT a key.

but yes any combination of the notes in a key can be used together however some combinations are gonna work nicer than others. like if you take the first 5 notes in C (C D E F G) and you play C E G (1,3,5) that's a major chord (C) but say you play C D E (1,2,3) that's gonna be a nasty mess, however might prove useful depending on what you're going for.

2) using only tones that are diatonic (from) that scale will be a pretty can't miss system for maintaining good tonality without violating the key or ppls ears. yes, the bassline notes should absolutely be from the chosen scale. but like in c again if your first bassnote is c and then you move to and F say, that's not a melodic motion, that would be a chord change. so if you had c in the bass the other synths might have something like E, G, Bb, or D up top.....and then when you were on that F bass tone, non of those tones would be pleasant, you'd need like A, C, Eb, or G...how do you know this....

First, memorize the names of all the notes in the OCTAVE ie:

A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab (A)

this is the 12 tone system of western music, it is essential before understanding scales, chords, or progressions.

then learn the triad (three note) combinations of those tones ie

MAJOR
R 3rd 5th
C E G

MINOR
R b3rd 5th
C Eb G

that's only two.

in my opinion there's two ways to compose. hit and miss, and theory based comprehension. I can assure you though Van Dyke or even John Williams know what key their songs are in and what chords and scales they used even if it wasn't conscious at the time of writing.

3) ah should have read 3 a little closer. yeah again you can and can't just use any two notes. say you have c in the bass and g in the mel, it'll work nicely, but say you have c in the bass and like d or b in the mel....that's gonna be a dissonance. sometimes that's intentional but i can promise you you will not like the sound as much as two CONSONANT notes like C and E, C and G, or C and A.

it's a lot i know. however any producer serious about their music would benefit greatly from getting some theory background and even piano lessons. knowing some theory doesn't mean you think it when you write, but it does give you tools to never run out of ideas and to compose in the truest sense of the word.

___________________
OUT NOW ON TVR ::
The Anthem Smash for the End of 08
Michael Conway- AUTUMN + Channel's Breaks Mix

LIVE:
10.11 TRINITY, SEA
11.02 AC Lounge, SD
11.04 THE BOOM ROOM w. Reid Speed, LA
11.21 WHITE OUT 6, SEA
03.07 PIRATES OF PUGET SOUND 3, SEA

www.beatport.com/label/televisionary+records

quote:

Originally posted by DJSentinel Well if you want to be so fucking correct then yes you are right, but maybe you should be looking to help others and not waste your time correcting every mistake I make. I could go on for hours about you not using correct english grammar when you post, which I don't think you used a single period during your whole post to end your sentences, but I won't because it's the message that counts here. If I really wanted to I would post scales in Hz :-P. Burn me.

only problem is that this is a music website, not a grammar website. You were wrong. Suck it up. He was just shedding some light. If you are going to try and teach theory, do it right or at least let people that know what they are talking about talk.

tnx Channel Surfer, I have learned a lot

quote:

Originally posted by Thois 1)Can I use any combination of the keys in that scale? There is no order or something?

Mostly yes, but there is at least one exception I know of, which is the melodic minor scale. In that scale one of the notes changes by a semitone based on whether you are going up the scale or down. There's probably others too but I don't know enough theory.

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quote:

Originally posted by pho mo Mostly yes, but there is at least one exception I know of, which is the melodic minor scale. In that scale one of the notes changes by a semitone based on whether you are going up the scale or down. There's probably others too but I don't know enough theory.

in minor modes , it is tradition to raise the 7th note of the scale when you are going back to one or ascending. Not really a rule .just something that happened in about 99% of western classical music and that was passed on.

So lets say you were in A minor

you would play G# - A instead of G - A.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV only problem is that this is a music website, not a grammar website. You were wrong. Suck it up. He was just shedding some light. If you are going to try and teach theory, do it right or at least let people that know what they are talking about talk.

Well actually it depends. If I was spelling the scale UP my way was correct, but If I was spelling the scale DOWN, he would be correct. Atleast I was taught that way. Maybe it is different when you write it down, but I was taught you say/spell it the direction your spelling it in.

I don't even know why we are arguing about this. If someone asked me what the harmonic frequency in any given wave and I replied "well its seems to be the 5th or 659Hz of the base freqency 440Hz," but then you could say "no, there is no harmonic frequency. Actually there is a base frequency of 659Hz and a SUB-harmonic frequency which is the sub-4th or 440Hz."

I know that this is a music website, but maybe people haven't learned the same way. So unless I made a mistake like saying E natural is in the Cminor scale, maybe we should keep gramatics out of it. Thats at least my opinion. If you really think we should be very precise in how we say things, they maybe I should start tell people whenever they make a false referece to a term, I should correct them.

Jerry: Man I'm wanting to make this sound a bit more robust. How can I do it?
Mandy: Well if you applied an LFO to that oscillator then it would sound awesome!
Me: What the fuck are you talking about? You can "apply" an LFO to an oscillator. You can "modulate" a "parameter" with the LFO's "output signal" or "output value."
Mandy: Well im sorry, I assumed you knew he was using V-Station!?
Me: Well we are not on a Novation forum, were on a music forum :-P
Jerry: Your a douche bag.
Me: Wanna fight?

See what I mean?

No worries. I love you all :-D
Peace,
DJS

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