quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Halcyon is not a breakbeat track and Papua New Guinea is not a trance track.

You got to be kidding me, their structures are very much alike. Listen to this comparison mix I did: link

I'll agree to disagree.

that track is amazing

the video is kinda funny though

nice track. too bad it's kinda hard to find now. i'd buy the single!

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quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 You got to be kidding me, their structures are very much alike. Listen to this comparison mix I did: link I'll agree to disagree.

listen to the kick, it's a 4 to the floor kick ffs. yes, the percussion is set up in a "breaks manner" to make you think it's a breakbeat track but it's not. halcyon is uhhm, let just say it's techno, (fuck knows what the genre it would be pidgeonholed into). and fsol - png is breaks.

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quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 You got to be kidding me, their structures are very much alike. Listen to this comparison mix I did: link I'll agree to disagree.

I've heard them both a million times. I have Papua the single, Papua Translations and the Papua Remix Anthology. I've heard Papua to death and I love it to pieces, but:

1. The video sucks.
2. It isn't trance.

It's breaks. I like Ishkur's "ambient breaks" tag- it's an ambient track with a solid breakbeat. So maybe it's ambient. Either way, it isn't trance. And how the holy fuck are their structures alike? Papua is typical early 90s breakbeat- it slides through different sections with percussive interludes. Halcyon (assuming we mean & On & On- the original is nothing at all like trance) has an extended ambient intro and just loops the reversed vox over the beat after that, with other stuff coming in and out.

Maybe Halcyon is trance. I tend to call it techno, because it's from probably the best techno album of all time. Possibly ambient techno (another apt Ish-tag). Papua ain't. Even by your tenuous argument, the video doesn't depict "pure trance" because Papua (if trance at all) is hundreds of miles from pure trance.

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Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Both Papua and Halcyon were part of the early 90s "ambient house" boom....to recontextualize ambient music with modern grooves and beats. Perfect for that 4am chill session after a night of frenetic dancing at raves. This movement was spearheaded by--once again--The KLF and their collagist masterpiece Chill Out, and further explored by Biosphere, The Orb, and the like.

But it was never, ever, ever called trance. Trance was this harsh, aciddy, repetitive alien stuff that came out of Germany and Belgium at the time. Ambient House (Or Ambient Techno, Ambient Breaks...they're all pretty synonymous...there really shouldn't be three or four genres pointing to the same scene on the guide) was largely a UK thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Both Papua and Halcyon were part of the early 90s "ambient house" boom....to recontextualize ambient music with modern grooves and beats. Perfect for that 4am chill session after a night of frenetic dancing at raves. This movement was spearheaded by--once again--The KLF and their collagist masterpiece Chill Out, and further explored by Biosphere, The Orb, and the like.

I hate to vaguely derail my own topic, but I heard Chill Out properly recently for the first time, and I was crashingly dissapointed. For me it doesn't touch Ultraworld.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

liked the song

But I haven't seen anything that dull since 'Reign Of Fire', that dragon movie

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I hate to vaguely derail my own topic, but I heard Chill Out properly recently for the first time, and I was crashingly dissapointed. For me it doesn't touch Ultraworld.

Because it's not ambient music proper. It's collagist music. They made the thing in one take, out of scads of samples and tape decks, punching them in at key moments. The recurring theme in Chill Out is America....Elvis, steel guitars, country music, the preacher, Jimi Hendrix, the Police Report from Lindenhurst--Nassau County in Long Island (NY), the Navaho indian throat chant, the song titles that recant a night time drive along the Gulf Coast from Brownsville, Texas, to New Orleans (a trip that takes 7.4 hours, despite the disc being only 44 minutes, I plan on retracing this pilgrimmage someday), etc....

The KLF loved juxtopositions like this. I think you're making the same mistake with it as you're doing with Daft Punk, seeing it through the eyes of today. Keep in mind that, up until that point--1989--no one blended such imagery like this before. And without Chill Out, there may very well have never been a 90s Ambient boom. Who do you think Alex Patterson stole most of his early samples from?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Because it's not ambient music proper. It's collagist music. They made the thing in one take, out of scads of samples and tape decks, punching them in at key moments. The recurring theme in Chill Out is America....Elvis, steel guitars, country music, the preacher, Jimi Hendrix, the Police Report from Lindenhurst--Nassau County in Long Island (NY), the Navaho indian throat chant, the song titles that recant a night time drive along the Gulf Coast from Brownsville, Texas, to New Orleans (a trip that takes 7.4 hours, despite the disc being only 44 minutes, I plan on retracing this pilgrimmage someday), etc.... The KLF loved juxtopositions like this. I think you're making the same mistake with it as you're doing with Daft Punk, seeing it through the eyes of today. Keep in mind that, up until that point--1989--no one blended such imagery like this before. And without Chill Out, there may very well have never been a 90s Ambient boom. Who do you think Alex Patterson stole most of his early samples from?

Fair play on its historical significance- I wouldn't ever take that away from The KLF. But I've spoke to a lot of people about this record- people who love it as a piece of music and I got a totally different impression from what I've been told. I fully agree about the American concept, but everyone else seems to think it's about the English countryside, and as I live in the English countryside I didn't see that aspect at all.

I guess I was just hoping that I could still listen to it in a modern context like Ultraworld and get the intended effect, but the use of samples does sound heavy-handed today and it gets inappropriately synthy and epic at times.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

KLF <3

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I guess I was just hoping that I could still listen to it in a modern context like Ultraworld and get the intended effect, but the use of samples does sound heavy-handed today and it gets inappropriately synthy and epic at times.

Incidentally, don't read Cinos' review of it on TC. It is ass. And I think he actually called the sliding steel guitar in Madrugada Eterna "horns" or something. I cringe whenever he tries to talk about music instruments and theory. And I don't think he noticed the America connection or traced down the origin of some of the samples at all (3am Somewhere Out of Beaumont = Pink Floyd - Echoes, etc...).

It is a very very VERY bad and ignorant review. Even though it's given a good score. It just sounds completely amateurish.