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Originally posted by MarkT that's absurd. you can pick and choose, so long as you use consistent criteria. I use something along the lines of the 'harm principle'...smoking in confined, public spaces is a specific harm to others. A *bit* of noise on the waterfront to a select few homeowners who should know better since they live near downtown...I don't consider that to be "harm". People don't have the right to SILENCE...they have the right to not be subjected to unreasonable noise...I highly doubt this noise is *that* loud.

just playing the devils advocate for a second. A lot of scientists now consider "noise pollution" to be very harmful. Of course this all falls into interpretation and relevancy. Whereas you may feel that a "little bit" of noise is not harmful to you in relation to smoking, others may feel that a little second hand smoke is not harmful to them in relation to car fumes on a city street.

Thats the problem when you become a nit picker. Its all in interpretation.

I happen to have a high (for our society at least) tolerance for the actions of others. Other people do not.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

i'm going to move on to bay and front street and i'm going to complain about the traffic that happens in the morning and around 4-5pm when people leave work.

if they move in and know that they don't want the noise, then dont' move there. its plain and simple.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 just playing the devils advocate for a second. A lot of scientists now consider "noise pollution" to be very harmful. Of course this all falls into interpretation and relevancy. Whereas you may feel that a "little bit" of noise is not harmful to you in relation to smoking, others may feel that a little second hand smoke is not harmful to them in relation to car fumes on a city street. Thats the problem when you become a nit picker. Its all in interpretation. I happen to have a high (for our society at least) tolerance for the actions of others. Other people do not.

i guess that's where common sense comes in .. but i suppose that too has died along with having fun in this city..

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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

What no one here seems to realize is that Islander's houses were literally shaking, windows and floors shaking at four in the morning.
A few years ago when in attempt to reduce the number of times fines were getting dropped at their door the docks management turned the speakers away from the Island people in the Beaches complained about the noise to the point where their counsellor was advocating pulling the plug on the club immediately.
By way of comparison, beside where the docks is now located there was a car crushing facility for as long as anyone can remember, no one on the islands complained about the noise from the sounds of cars being pulverized.

For ten years people on the islands were asking if the club could keep the outdoor noise levels down after 11pm. Even when the local constabulary fined the docks for noise violations, it evidentl became a cost of doing business ($5000 seems palrtry compared to any night's bar tab).

There has always been room for compromise but the management of the docks has steadfastly refused to consider the neighborhood that they moved into. Yes the residents of the Islands were there first.

If the docks ends up permanently losing their liquor license the only person who should be blamed is Sprackman for trying to bully his way into ignoring the existing bylaws and the environment he operates in.

I think the docks is great, it is a great venue in an awesome location and the facilities have brought new life to an industrial area. But it is also not too much to ask that business owners respect the area that they are moving into. If the clubs in the entertainment district - I used to live on Adelaide at John for years - can manage to have a dialogue with local residents, what is stopping sprackman and company from being good neighbors?

Clubs in LA and New York are silent at street level, and heart stoppingly loud inside. When we used to have illegal after hours parties they were also loud inside and nearly silent outside, so WTF is up with sprackman. Seems to me like he is pitting the club goers against his neighbors, maybe to drum up free publicity?

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LOL the whole reason for moving to the city centre is to be closer to the noise!

Yeah sure, the island residents were there before the Docks, but the downtown was there before them. Traditionally downtowns are the centre of a cities night life.

I find it funny how often a minority can ruin it for the majority in Toronto.

If you don't like the beats move to Barrie, Bolton or some other far flung place.

Uh I don't know what map you are looking at but the docks isn't downtown or in the city centre. If the industrial and shipping noises that preceeded the docks didn't annoy the people on the islands, then I don't think that it is just the noise of living in a busy area that is what is bothering them.

Sprackman's been breaking the law for years, like it or not he is the author of his own fate. Turning this into a publicity campaign is just embarassing.

As far as a majority's fun being ruined by a minority consider the millions of people who visit the Islands, it is city park after all - as a retreat from the heat and congenstion and noise of the city? Is it necessary to subject them to the noise of the docks as well? Maybe we should suggest moving the party to High Park instead.

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Originally posted by skip-f*ckn-intr Uh I don't know what map you are looking at but the docks isn't downtown or in the city centre. If the industrial and shipping noises that preceeded the docks didn't annoy the people on the islands, then I don't think that it is just the noise of living in a busy area that is what is bothering them. Sprackman's been breaking the law for years, like it or not he is the author of his own fate. Turning this into a publicity campaign is just embarassing. As far as a majority's fun being ruined by a minority consider the millions of people who visit the Islands, it is city park after all - as a retreat from the heat and congenstion and noise of the city? Is it necessary to subject them to the noise of the docks as well? Maybe we should suggest moving the party to High Park instead.

hahahhahaha

so the noise of the docks bothers the visitors to the islands during the day?

millions of visitors to the islands? source please.

you also make it seem like sprackman is a criminal...because his club on occasion has broken noise bylaws?

seriously, move.

who do you islanders think you are? honestly....

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Originally posted by SuperJimbo You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake, no matter how many guestlists you put yourself on.

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Originally posted by MKpacha hahahhahaha so the noise of the docks bothers the visitors to the islands during the day? millions of visitors to the islands? source please. you also make it seem like sprackman is a criminal...because his club on occasion has broken noise bylaws? seriously, move. who do you islanders think you are? honestly....

i would also like to add that the motives of you islanders are so selfish it makes me sick. you have no consideration whatsoever for the economic impact that closing down the docks will have. it will not only force 400 people out of jobs but also cost the tax payers a rediculous amount of money in fighting the massive lawsuits that will soon follow.

all for what...quiet weekends in the summer? we all know the noise isn't nearly as bad as you whiners make it seem.

THE TORONTO ISLANDS ARE NOT A FUCKING RETIREMENT HOME.

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We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.

I'm not an islander. I live downtown, and I like to visit the island, and I have friends who have lived there their whole lives and I have no problem with loud music, I just don't think that one groups party has to piss all over other people's lives. There is always room for a compromise, something which the Docks has shown no interest in when it comes to it's neighbors.

but since you asked for a source:
City of toronto website.
Over 1,225,000 people visit this 230.388 hectare park each year.

And yeah if you go over the islands during the day when there's a party at the docks you can hear it loud and clear on the islands.

What do you call someone who repeatedly breaks the law, even if they can simply ignore it by absorbing the cost of the fines?

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And as i said before if the docks close because they have lost their liquor license, it would be the managements fault for continuing to break the law for years.

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I laugh how all 4 of your posts have been on the topic of the docks vs. the islanders. not only to mention you profile leaves nothing to the imagination "turn it up or turn it off".

seriously. get back on the boat.

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quote:

Originally posted by SuperJimbo You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake, no matter how many guestlists you put yourself on.

quote:

Originally posted by skip-f*ckn-intr City of toronto website. Over 1,225,000 people visit this 230.388 hectare park each year.

exageration kills the credibility of your arguments.

1.2 million is hardly millions.

and as if you don't live on the islands...who are you kidding?

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We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.