quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley No Lockerbie was committed by Lybia (on America) So, why has the UK not been attacked before the Iraq War?

It was an American plane but it was on British soil and people died on the ground too.

What's happened in Iraq cannot be changed. Weather you agree with it or not. I agree in some ways it would sway some moderate muslims into becoming more extreme in their views.

It's been a hot bed waiting to happen for years George, face it quite a lot of Muslims hate us regardless of if you supported the Iraq war or not they wouldn't care about killing you they'd feel no remorse or guilt about it because your a westerner.

Times are changing the younger generation of muslims in the UK are becoming more religious, their naive and gulliable this is what is leading them to become vulnerable to brainwashing radicals who slip underneath the radar due to relaxed immagration laws. As a whole the muslim community is becoming more segregated and isolated from the rest of British society.

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Originally posted by George Smiley targetted before Iraq by the Islamists?

Because before the Iraqian war they had no excuse to attack you..
if they could bomb USA in 9/11 they could as well bomb UK who considered as USA ally..

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Originally posted by Dj Alex (ISR) Because before the Iraqian war they had no excuse to attack you.. if they could bomb USA in 9/11 they could as well bomb UK who considered as USA ally..

+1

"Excuse" is the key word in that comment. The motivation behind these terrorist groups is to force their own ethos onto people. The notion that we can somehow find justification or even sympathy behind their methods of blowing up planes or causing innocent deaths by other means is both exactly what they want and disturbing. Not unlike other groups throughout history, today's modern "terrorists" want one thing: to force other people to think like them, or to kill those who won't. There is no negotiation or middle ground that they are seeking. Either you are one of them or you need to be killed, in their eyes. I find no way to justify or pawn the blame off to anyone except the ones committing these acts.

Those people AKA terorists are not looking for vengeance or fight back.. they just want to force you to beliave in Islam.. and if you dont..
you need to be killed..
You must understand that there is no one to blame in those acts, just those who justify those acts.
if USA will leave Iraq, Afganistan.. Israel will leave Lebanon.. Russia will leave Chechnya.. you think they will stop?
aaaaaa - wrong answer,
it will only give them power and motivation to fight the western society..

Last edited by Dj Alex (ISR) on Aug-10-2006 at 14:40

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Originally posted by George Smiley You think I'm not upset?! You think I have some kind of sympathy for these people?! Well you're wrong. My feelings towards them are prety much the same as yours. However, I consider myself rational enough to rise above my emotions and offer a reasonable explanation of why they would do such things (which in turn is useful for preventing such attacks). I have already said Pakistani maddrasses are the reason they get brainwashed (after being refered by fundamentalists living in this country). But I also acknowledge that one of the other reasons is our actions (unneccessary) against what they see as Muslims.

No I did not really think that, and I respect you, too many of us and I am guilty of it, resort to Mob Reaction when stuff like this happens. It is a good thing to know why these people want to hurt us, but in no way should we allow the "why" to change our beliefs. Especially when the "WHY" is based on hate and the total destruction of our freedoms
I would also agree that our stance toward the muslim world needs to change and change quick before the HATE that these animals preach becomes the norm. I still believe that the muslim culture is one of the purest of the all, however, its time to come out of the Dark Ages that these radicals are fighting so hard to keep, the muslim culture needs to stand up with one voice and state to the world, This Behaivor is not Acceptable, and we are a People that will no longer accept it. A pipe dream?? I would love to think that I would live long enough to see it happen...

first of all, i consider myelf a fairly free thinking and accepting person. but what we are dealing with here is extreemist mentality of people who are willing to give up their lives for a (stupid) cause.

how do we deal with this, moderatly.


by simple mathmatics

extreeme action (-) + moderate reaction (+) = net loss

problem is, how do you deter someone willing to die from a cause. threat of bodily harm obviously wont work. but if you threaten their family, relatives, neighboors.... then they may think twice.

I am in now way advocating the killing of anyone but if you were someone considering hijacking a plane and flyign it into a building, and you knew that by doing that someone was going to a obliterate your family / friends.... what decision would you make.

its easy to lay your life on the line for a cause, but could you make that decision for your parents, your cousins, your siblings, your spouse, your children?

The longer we give these people due legal process in reaction to their planned acts or commited acts, the longer they are going to continue to target the west with these sensless acts of violence...

i think the time of diplomacy is comming to a close end, and unless we want the world to be reduced to WW3, the time has come to take a hard line against the hard liners. Frankly i would love to be able to get on a plane without someone insterting their hand up my ass, be able to bring my nail clippers, be able to eat a airplane meal wtih a fork AND knife.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

From my "Suicide Killers" threat (an interesting, albeit lenghty interview).

quote:

Unlike an electronic device, a suicide killer has until the last second the capacity to change his mind. In reality, he is nothing but a platform representing interests which are not his, but he doesn't know it.

These people are beyond brainwashed. They fight for a cause that offers them no personal gain (other than the belief that they'll finally get laid in a veritable harem when they die, hence the smiles on their faces right before they pull the trigger).

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan It was an American plane but it was on British soil and people died on the ground too.

Your example is irrelevant because it was not committed by Islamists. You might as well have used an IRA bombing as an example of Islamic terrorism against the UK before the Iraq War and it would have been just as irrelevant...

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What's happened in Iraq cannot be changed. Weather you agree with it or not. I agree in some ways it would sway some moderate muslims into becoming more extreme in their views. It's been a hot bed waiting to happen for years George, face it quite a lot of Muslims hate us regardless of if you supported the Iraq war or not they wouldn't care about killing you they'd feel no remorse or guilt about it because your a westerner. Times are changing the younger generation of muslims in the UK are becoming more religious, their naive and gulliable this is what is leading them to become vulnerable to brainwashing radicals who slip underneath the radar due to relaxed immagration laws. As a whole the muslim community is becoming more segregated and isolated from the rest of British society.

If they are becoming more segregated it's as much to do with brainwashing as it is to do with attitudes like yours towards them from the wider British community. Still, you seem to be paying lip service to the fact that the Iraq War provoked these terrorists into attacking us and you have still to offer me an explanation as to why the UK (a Western society) has not been attacked before the Iraq War, when modern Political Islam has been active in the world for nearly a century...

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Originally posted by Dj Alex (ISR) Because before the Iraqian war they had no excuse to attack you.. if they could bomb USA in 9/11 they could as well bomb UK who considered as USA ally..

When you say "excuse" do you mean "reason"?

From what everyone on here is saying about the Islamists, why would they need an excuse?!

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Originally posted by George Smiley When you say "excuse" do you mean "reason"? From what everyone on here is saying about the Islamists, why would they need an excuse?!

So they don't piss off the moderate Muslims who could turn their backs on them. When they have excuses, they have people who might not commit acts of extremism, but will assist in hiding them (or at least not turn them in). If the moderates all turned on the extremists, it would severely diminish their capabilities to inflict damage.

By the way, in my mind, these sort of attacks make little sense. Granted, they kill off a few hundred/thousand civilians, but they're not inflicting any major damage on the economic or power structure of the Western world. At least the 9/11 attacks attempted that when they hit the WTC and the Pentagon. All this does, in my eyes, is make them look worse to everyone around the world. Everyone complains about the Israeli bombings now that are killing civilians, but at least are also hitting strategic targets, too.

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"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono +1 "Excuse" is the key word in that comment. The motivation behind these terrorist groups is to force their own ethos onto people. The notion that we can somehow find justification or even sympathy behind their methods of blowing up planes or causing innocent deaths by other means is both exactly what they want and disturbing. Not unlike other groups throughout history, today's modern "terrorists" want one thing: to force other people to think like them, or to kill those who won't. There is no negotiation or middle ground that they are seeking. Either you are one of them or you need to be killed, in their eyes. I find no way to justify or pawn the blame off to anyone except the ones committing these acts.

No sympathy, no justification, simply understanding. Understanding can definately lead to sympathy or justification for some (not me), but it is also the path to eliminating the threat (or more to the point, not making the threat worse). If you cannot fathem why they would do such a thing then you have no way of defeating their aims.

You also demonstrate in incredibly poor knowledge of the history of terrorism if you think most terrorist groups had as their primary aim to force people to think like them and kill those that dont. I can only think of one such group in my experience that had such aims and those were the Thugee of India (a Hindu terrorist group operating from the 13th to the 19th centuries). Every other terrorist group I have come across in my experience has had specific political aims and Political Islam is no different (imo).

What are the political aims of the British Islamist terrorists? Well as nobody has as yet demonstrated that before 9/11 there was an Islamist threat to the UK then we can only conclude that the political aims of the British terrorists are to change the UK government's 'War on Terror' policy (meaning Iraq)

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Alex (ISR) Those people AKA terorists are not looking for vengeance or fight back.. they just want to force you to beliave in Islam.. and if you dont.. you need to be killed.. You must understand that there is no one to blame in those acts, just those who justify those acts. if USA will leave Iraq, Afganistan.. Israel will leave Lebanon.. Russia will leave Chechnya.. you think they will stop? aaaaaa - wrong answer, it will only give them power and motivation to fight the western society..

Or maybe without these legitimising conflicts they would have no success trying to convince ordinary Muslims to join their cause and would eventually die out?