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Originally posted by staticblue If he coudln't afford the best car, he would probably realise that a slightly slower car costs less, gives nearly the same results and he can even take the turns more easily

good point

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That's the second time this week that I have seen a car analogy on this forum... what's the world coming to?

Nem

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If it were an analogue vs software battle, or an analogue vs VA battle, analogue would win, hands down. But in the case of software vs VA, it just comes down to how much of your CPU can be devoted to making the software imitate the VA's routing. If you have enough power, and your software is high quality, then all things are more or less equal.

Not to mention, sometimes its fun to do some lo-fi sounds.

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quote:

Originally posted by staticblue If he coudln't afford the best car, he would probably realise that a slightly slower car costs less, gives nearly the same results and he can even take the turns more easily

Great reply, but while Schumacher has the money he will always go for the best!

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex If it were an analogue vs software battle, or an analogue vs VA battle, analogue would win, hands down. But in the case of software vs VA, it just comes down to how much of your CPU can be devoted to making the software imitate the VA's routing. If you have enough power, and your software is high quality, then all things are more or less equal. Not to mention, sometimes its fun to do some lo-fi sounds.

It's not Software vs. VA

Ugh. If you put G-Media impOSCar in a breakout box you would think it was hardware. Its that fucking good. Same with Audio Realism Bassline - The saw wave on that you could mistake for a X0Xbox.

For some reason though people will always love hardware because its tangible. It feels like buying a toy and it has physical presence and worth. In sound terms I dont know why anyone would want to make monophonic analogue sounds with a Virus. It just doesnt sound anywhere near as good for that purpose as impOSCar.

Not that virus is capable anyway. My Waldorf Pulse triangle has 2x more low end at least =) I have to do more cutting the low end than I do boosting with the Pulse, definatly not the same case with virus. Infact I have to highpass at like 60hz not to rape my sub. And it's still fatter than the virus.

And I definatly don't agree with ABL saw sounding like the real 303.. Maybe your being decieve by it's nice distortion unit, when that's up is the only time ABL's saw seems acceptable to me, it's not that fat alone. 303 has no overdrive and it doesn't need it to sound FATTTT.

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Last edited by mysticalninja on Aug-26-2006 at 04:10

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Originally posted by Synchronicity It's not Software vs. VA

Indeed. It's software vs hardware, with a VA synth as an example of the hardware. Hardware means both analogues like Xpander, Minimoog and the TB-303, and VAs such as Virus, JP8000, Nord Lead, etc. Because of the differences between these two forms of hardware, I compared each to software in turn.

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303 has no overdrive and it doesn't need it to sound FATTTT.

It doesn't need a distortion unit because it distorts itself when the volume is raised over a certain level. ABL just does the distorting before the volume control, so that you can have more control over the output, something that is more important in digital production. If you don't turn a 303 up really high, it's got slightly more bass than the ABL saw, but otherwise it's almost the same. I don't know what kind of algorithm the distortion unit on ABL uses, but I assume it was made to imitate the way that a 303 distorts. You also must note that Derivative only compared the ABL saw wave to that of the XOXbox, which, despite essentially being a reverse-engineered 303, sounds ever so slightly less thick than the 303.

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Last edited by thoughtlessjex on Aug-25-2006 at 20:27

What if you write your own fpga? It is alot easier than you might think, I've been playing with this beast all summer at my job:


http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/14145

The thing really has enough power and IO capability to do audio. It has this really slick sotware you use to program it, kinda like a programming language, but kinda like reactor, its pretty interesting stuff.

I guess the point of the question is, what is it about hardware that makes it so special? You can take just about any algorithm and burn it into an FPGA or use an embedded processor like many of the VA's do, hell you could synthezise a chip if you had alot of money. Is it the fact that the code is manifested in the form of a circuit, is it in the interface to the device, is it the pretty logos and the huge price tag, is it the fact that is doesn't use the operating system or sound card, is it because the stuff isnt in a noisy ugly unstable beige box that makes it better?

I wonder what makes hardware so different and superior, cuz I could seriously do DSP on this FPGA, midi, realtime, it all works. I've mainly been using it to do control signals at this point. The question being, if I attempted such a thing, would it be able to take advantage of the traits hardware has which make you guys like it so much more than software?

It doesn't distort anything like ABL's overdrive when you turn volume up on a 303! Infact, it gives it less highend. You need a distortion unit/pedal to get that sound from a 303.

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I wonder what makes hardware so different and superior

The developers.

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Originally posted by dj_palm i say again its all about knowing your equipment, whether its hardware or software, as mentioned airbase make killer tracks with software and armin doesnt make shit with expenisive hardwares and stuff. tho there are clearly diferenses between hardware software to my ears, hardware usualy sounds warmer and fuller while software feels abit sticky, its just like the comparision of vinyl vs cd, where vinyl is prefered in my ears. again airbase tracks are realy cool but have you ever listened to them in a club realy loud? its like hes trying to kill your ears with ticky kicks and hi-end-treble boost making me run out of there with my hands over my ears eventho the tracks are realy cool. when listening to a friend of mine which is not signed or anything but he is purely hardware and his trakcs sounds so mad nomather how loud u play. its just warmer, nicer,smoother, wider and all. hardware synths, rest on computer is what im gonna do.

Nearly everything you say is false, unless by hardware you're referring to ANALOG hardware.
That "warmer" feeling is all in your head because software and digital synths (aka VA) are essentially the same.
You CAN argue that a Virus sounds warmer than V-Station for example. But you can't say ALL hardware sound better, warmer... than ALL software.

I dont get the warmth shit. What the hell is warmth? More bass? Seriously. The only reason why the Virus sounds bassy is because the raw oscillators dont have that much top end and the filter is designed in a way where it doesnt kill the bass when the resonance is turned up. At least not that much.

Take Audio Realism Bassline - stick it through a tube amp or a tube simulator. Voila.

On the subject of 303s who the fuck uses a 303 without a shit tonne of effects? Kai Tracid, Aphex, even fucking Hardfloor stick it through tubes and guitar distortion pedals half the time.