Dick, I choose you!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Dick, I choose you!!!

I'm a christian, and I believe in evolution, but I don't like Dawkins style. He's too arrogant and obnoxious. Whilst the 'Blind Watchmaker' is good in parts, he isn't a particularly open-minded fella.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time. There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'

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Originally posted by Temperate It's nice that you say "Christians" in whole. Get educated please.

I am a Christian. Blew you away didn't I?

Now figure out what I was saying.

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This can't be real...

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BP

quote:

Originally posted by verdonsky This can't be real...

Take anything out of context or without knowing the full beliefs and behavioral patterns of a group and things will always seem odd and shocking.

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Originally posted by SebG I fucking hate christians. Fuck them and fuck their religion. Where is their god to stop all the fucking wars and shit. FUCK YOU ...this is coming from a catholic.

congratulations you idiot.

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Originally posted by jdat What you are saying is exactly one of the ironies and dilemnas raised from living in a democratic country. Such a government type frame means that gainful politics take place were the politicians are running for office only with hopes of gaining votes; to gain votes you have to say what the people want to hear. In the American case if 55% of the population is christian and they represent such a large electoral portion of the country politicians will push the appeals that are relevant to that group. It's not separation of church and state that is the key issue here but the fact that "We the people" are the ones who truly determine the outcome of the politics in that country. How can you justify that in a democratic country the group with the largest percentage of the population isn't allowed to have issues pertaining to it's needs be pushed to the front of the priority line? Now I don't know the actual numbers of the so called christian vote in the US so this isn't factually representative of the reality of the lobbying and electoral power but look back to 2004. Bush won the vote yet everyone against him kept saying he shouldn't be in power, he's a dictator etc etc. He won the vote, it's democracy that let him get into power ( now in regards to voting fraud that is another issue but at least officially he won ).

I think there is a difference between a democracy and a hardline populist state. When the state begins to oppress minorities, in my mind it ceases to be democratic (even if it is following the wishes of a minority) - eg the Jews under the 3rd reich to take an extreme example.

But to me the teaching of Christian doctrine in science classrooms in the US, and other issues coming into political debate simply because they are doctrinal issues for the evangelicals Are examples of certain democratic principles being eaten away by populist political ideology.

But in any case your point is well made. The problem with democracies is that its benefits quickly dissipate the moment you have a large enough lobby group of radicals who seem incapable of rational thought, and bent on pushing their fundamentalist idiocy down everyone else's throat (and I'm not talking about the 55% of Americans that describe themselves as Christians.. this is the extreme imbacillic fringe of Christianity).

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Yeah the third Reich is always the classic example of populism and democracy gone wrong...


Populism is a thing gaining ground in the United States ...
I'm just concerned that the constitution which is the sacred document there is either being trampled on or is used to allow any form of abuse:

Amendment I ( The United States Constitution ) - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This is often cited as showing the separation of church and state yet it's also very unclear as to how the Amemdement is to be used and put into application.


There's really no simple answer to these kinds of problems ( of religious or opinion groups ) and yet most of the issues concerning religious takeovers or restrictions are usually authorized or denied by the Constitutions.

In France for example they simply restrict ( in theory at least ) any form of public display of religion ( by symbolism or speech or other ) and the governement prides itself in being a secular state.
The irony is that they also spend their time proclaiming the liberty of the country ( all while trying to limit the visibility of religious beliefs entirely ).



Is it possible to found a society which can guarantee true equality for all while at the same time remain neutral?
It would be nice, but it's impossible.