quote:

Originally posted by zenperson As a 20 year musician, I agree that the digital age has taken SOME talent out of the everyday musician... singers that can't sing are now the standard... but, it's just the evolution of music and technology. It's not so bad to have an evolutionary shift to where people can make different styles of music using different styles of instrument, namely, the computer...It blows my mind each day at what we're capable of doing using computers... As time goes on, sample rates will get higher for CD quality... They're already there and being used every day, we just downsample to get to the CD quality. Unless you're a musician who's directly suffered as a result, then you've got nothing to complain about. I sure hope that you don't listen to CDs, MP3s or go to any shows that utilize any other medium that vinyl or analog tape, cause then you'd just be a hipocrit. Now, I will say this, digital has given way to the overuse of compression in in the final mastering stage, which is definately weakening an entire generation's ears as to what sounds good. But, that's not digital's fault.. it's the RIAA's fault for putting these ridiculous demands on mastering engineers. Analog will always sound better.. Dealing with actual voltage and actual waveforms will eternally be the standard... But, that's not to say that things can't sound different.

Hey im impressed you seem pretty imformed. Though I dont know if its all the RIAA's fault the general population buys into it.

___________________
"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes"

quote:

Originally posted by Icone I wonder how many people are still convinced that when you import sounds to your computer, you'll still have the 'analogue' sound you started with from your synth...

There's certainly an argument to be made that softsynths can't produce the same kinds of sounds as analogue equipment (and I agree), but if you're suggesting that recording a sound directly from an analogue synth at a good sample rate (96/24 or even 44/16) will result in an inaccurate reproduction, that's not correct. No producer or audiophile has ever been able to prove this point by reliably identifying the original in a blind test.

Unless you use a really lousy interpolating algorithm or a sub-standard DAC, there's no audible difference between the analogue source and the digital recording, even after several stages of this. Obviously the noise floor comes into play eventually, but that's a recording issue and not a medium issue.

On the other hand, analogue recording equipment like tapes and vinyl most definitely -will- introduce artifacts and tend to be quite easily distinguishable from the source material.

The analogue/digital debate is really quite funny for anyone who remembers the "electronic vs. unplugged" debates rock musicians had a generation ago. Seems that there will always be these retro nuts, but eventually their collective voice fades into obscurity.

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My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

I had a Tascam Porta02mkII and I would record guitars in there and they would sound very warm...obviously the lack of high end would be present, but it sounded so much warmer than running them through my Mackie mixer/Delta 1010 and recording it in Cubase. Have you guys tried Steinberg Magneto and similar plugins? To me, they still sound digital...just with some little distortion there.

Im just stating my opinion like most of you I use software aswell(I cant afford all that gritty hardware).

Some of my fav plugs

Everything PSP especially the delays
Waves SSL EQ's
Imposcar <-- Most analog sounding VA out there.
IK Ampeg VSX(though i just ordered a real ampeg b200r)


I plan on demoing the prophet v and amplitube 2 in the near future, so well see how those stack up, but as you can see i have a pretty nice guitar setup.

Also for you guys on the PT end there are those fucking awesome Masey Plugins and chandler limited both of which sound amazing.

___________________
"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes"

Hmm, so now this is a "sound engineer" forum, that all of a sudden everyone is one?

Think you guys need to get back and focus on the musical part of production? Thats where you are needed!

Im shure that you all know what oyu are talking about! But, may i say a couple of words....

Personally i think that "digital does not suck". I think that if it wasnt for the digitalization of music creation, most of us wouldnt be sitting here today and share it with each others.

I can just thank Propellerheads for where im at today. If it wasnt for my first copy of Rebirth and then Reason, i dont think i would have found my self having my own studio and a couple of releases today. Hell, maybe i would have just been sitting on my ass watching TV, or whatever.

What im trying to say is that, i think that the digitalization of music has given many more people opportunities to create music for a smaler amout of money, right!?

Shure, i wish i also had a big ass studio with all the goodies, but i cant afford it. And it seems like im not the only one!?

I like i have mentioned sometime before, i think we are to focused on the qulity of the sound it self, rather that the tune.

Shure, playing a JP in solo performance may sound much warmer than maybe a V-station. However, when creating clubmusic in general its much about the kick and basslines, and you cut almost all of the fullness of, lets say a saw lead, away and you you want it to cut nice in the mix to make it more present.

I can agree on that i would rather have a real analog synth for my basslines, cus thats where much of the warmness and punch is needed when making a club track. Cus i think that a digital bassline often need some extra proccesing for getting more presence!

So, like mentioned before here, i think that a mix between both worlds works the best. The muddiness and warmth in the low ends from a analog, and the sharpness and clearity in the highs from digital...maybe!

Im not a pro on any of the areas here. I just wanted to say my opinion about it. I still belive that the digital world of music creation has just begun, and im think it has some huge possibilities.

Cheers
C

___________________
Download my tracks at AJ-tunes!
ajtunes.com/onova

Latest tune:Dj Eco - Paradise now (Onova remix) [Lunatique records]

quote:

Originally posted by substorm Hmm, so now this is a "sound engineer" forum, that all of a sudden everyone is one? Think you guys need to get back and focus on the musical part of production? Thats where you are needed! Im shure that you all know what oyu are talking about! But, may i say a couple of words.... Personally i think that "digital does not suck". I think that if it wasnt for the digitalization of music creation, most of us wouldnt be sitting here today and share it with each others. I can just thank Propellerheads for where im at today. If it wasnt for my first copy of Rebirth and then Reason, i dont think i would have found my self having my own studio and a couple of releases today. Hell, maybe i would have just been sitting on my ass watching TV, or whatever. What im trying to say is that, i think that the digitalization of music has given many more people opportunities to create music for a smaler amout of money, right!? Shure, i wish i also had a big ass studio with all the goodies, but i cant afford it. And it seems like im not the only one!? I like i have mentioned sometime before, i think we are to focused on the qulity of the sound it self, rather that the tune. Shure, playing a JP in solo performance may sound much warmer than maybe a V-station. However, when creating clubmusic in general its much about the kick and basslines, and you cut almost all of the fullness of, lets say a saw lead, away and you you want it to cut nice in the mix to make it more present. I can agree on that i would rather have a real analog synth for my basslines, cus thats where much of the warmness and punch is needed when making a club track. Cus i think that a digital bassline often need some extra proccesing for getting more presence! So, like mentioned before here, i think that a mix between both worlds works the best. The muddiness and warmth in the low ends from a analog, and the sharpness and clearity in the highs from digital...maybe! Im not a pro on any of the areas here. I just wanted to say my opinion about it. I still belive that the digital world of music creation has just begun, and im think it has some huge possibilities. Cheers C

+1.

So true.

Regards

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RiValMan

- Pumping the bits using:
My beloved MacBook Pro, Logic Pro X, UAD hardware and software and tons of plug-ins...

softsynth (and icone) supporter here. if it weren't for the softsynths, i won't be here talking bout music and share knowledge. so, does digital really suck? i don't think so... i wouldn't pay that extra 1-2 grand for that bit of hardware warmth (i'd rather choose software warmth :P)

quote:

Originally posted by fr0st Hey im impressed you seem pretty imformed. Though I dont know if its all the RIAA's fault the general population buys into it.

Don't be so swayed by everything you read... Yea, it's nice to have a physics breakdown of what sampling really is, but in all reality, it's physics...

A general rule for music is, if it sounds good, it is good. If you like the way it sounds, then it can't suck.. who gives a shit if the sampling leaves gaps in the regeneration of the wave form... last time i checked,digital surround in the theater sounded pretty fucking awesome, and well, it sucks that the wave form had gaps, but leave it to science to disillusion us...

Blue ray is really going to step the standard up and I forsee things getting even better as time gets on because it's getting ridiculous the amount of information we can store in such a small space... so, just hang in there and listen to what you know sounds good.

quote:

Originally posted by substorm The muddiness and warmth in the low ends from a analog, and the sharpness and clearity in the highs from digital...maybe!

Imo, the other way around. Lows need sharpness and clarity, highs would benefit from analog naturalness.

quote:

Originally posted by zenperson Don't be so swayed by everything you read... Yea, it's nice to have a physics breakdown of what sampling really is, but in all reality, it's physics... A general rule for music is, if it sounds good, it is good. If you like the way it sounds, then it can't suck.. who gives a shit if the sampling leaves gaps in the regeneration of the wave form... last time i checked,digital surround in the theater sounded pretty fucking awesome, and well, it sucks that the wave form had gaps, but leave it to science to disillusion us... Blue ray is really going to step the standard up and I forsee things getting even better as time gets on because it's getting ridiculous the amount of information we can store in such a small space... so, just hang in there and listen to what you know sounds good.

Nothing beings turning a pot and interacting directly with electrical circuit..

___________________
"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes"

quote:

Originally posted by Chronosis Imo, the other way around. Lows need sharpness and clarity, highs would benefit from analog naturalness.

Well, yes... the lows needs sharpness and clarity, but as you said, it would benefit from the natrual sharpness of the analog. So it really doesnt matter.

___________________
Download my tracks at AJ-tunes!
ajtunes.com/onova

Latest tune:Dj Eco - Paradise now (Onova remix) [Lunatique records]

Ok, lets make a little test on you guys!

Go and visit my MySpace page and listen to the tracks there and the tell me in what tune/tunes i have used hardware sounds?

The link is in y sig.

Cheers
Christian

___________________
Download my tracks at AJ-tunes!
ajtunes.com/onova

Latest tune:Dj Eco - Paradise now (Onova remix) [Lunatique records]