quote:

Originally posted by occrider Kill all the American troops and the Shiites. or Kill all the American troops and the Sunnis. or Kill all the Shiites and Sunnis (ie: kill Iraq). That's how you'll get a stop to all the substantive killing.

No, that's cerainly not a solution.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid I'm willing to kill b/c the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT has strayed from what the founding fathers wanted. And look at all these fucking career politicians. And what? Nobody questions anymore. Look, the american style of life, is the new slave system. No different from serfs and nobles. You won't get it. Many won't get it. That is why a revolution won't happen.

YOU aren't getting it!

Until people are shaken in their comforts at home they won't move an inch to try and overthrow their governement.



The US population has been lied to, EVERY country has been lied to by their politians, but unless it has a direct repercussion on peoples lives at the local level ( and not some foreigners abroad getting attacked for whatever reason there may be ) nothing can happen, you cannot expect an uprising from people if the peoples lives aren't shaken to the core in their own backyards!


If you can find me examples of popular uprisings resulting in an overthrown because of abusive foreign policy please let me know!
That is contrary to the very basic concept of revolution which is a significantly measurable change of a local shape or form.

quote:

Originally posted by jdat YOU aren't getting it! Until people are shaken in their comforts at home they won't move an inch to try and overthrow their governement. The US population has been lied to, EVERY country has been lied to by their politians, but unless it has a direct repercussion on peoples lives at the local level ( and not some foreigners abroad getting attacked for whatever reason there may be ) nothing can happen, you cannot expect an uprising from people if the peoples lives aren't shaken to the core in their own backyards! If you can find me examples of popular uprisings resulting in an overthrown because of abusive foreign policy please let me know! That is contrary to the very basic concept of revolution which is a significantly measurable change of a local shape or form.

That certainly true for a "mass" revolution, for lack of a better term. And I pretty much agree with you here. But it's not like organized social activism (whatever form it takes) can't result in significant positive social change.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z No, that's cerainly not a solution.

I am certainly no expert on Iraq but my basic understanding is that the local groups fighting each other ( Shiite Suunis ) have been only gathered under a common government for a very short period of time (50 or so years )!?
Stopping the war in itself could only happen if the two peacefully cohabitated.
At this current stage I am under the impression it is a free for all and that the coalition forces are just sitting back and keeping death counts

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid I'm willing to kill b/c the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT has strayed from what the founding fathers wanted. And look at all these fucking career politicians. And what? Nobody questions anymore. Look, the american style of life, is the new slave system. No different from serfs and nobles. You won't get it. Many won't get it. That is why a revolution won't happen.

I hate to say this cause I hate dating myself,

but you will see things different once you get just a tad bit older.

I understand and believe me, I GET IT. but what you need to realize is that America is no where near as bad as you are making it out to be, even with all of the B.S. that the Patriot act is doing and how minorities are treated, we are no where near as bad as any other country. You sitting here on a public forum advocating the over throw of the government won't get you thrown into a dark cell like in other countries. you having the ability to walk down the street and buy a pack of smokes, bread and beer, is something that some people don't have. you get laid off from a job, you can get unemployment. see where I am heading with this??

Even and me saying this might upset, but even me who was the one of the most radical mother ****** out there 10 years ago when I was in college, was protesting everything and anything that was against my beliefs, I grew up and saw the big picture. We are lucky to either been born in this country or had parents that loved us enough to get us out of the messes they were in. Thats why it really irks me when I hear a young college student bad mouthing the country. not that they are wrong, but because they do not know.... go ask someone that lives in Ethiopia, Niger, Hungary, Mexico that is living off 3 dollars a week that you hate the government of the US and you want to over throw it..... they will either slap ya for bieng stupid or think you are retarded.

p.s. the founding fathers?? fuck the founding fathers, they had slaves they murdered indians and they stole land. Called it Manifist Destiny, ha ha h ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL?? yeah as long as they were white...and protestant. I will pick the modern us government over them any ol day.

you wanna know how??
you cant.. sad but true..

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Track of the Moment... Technical

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I've always been of the impression that you don't agree with the ends justify means philosophy. Not that I'm accusing you of anything, but I'm not quite clear on your position regarding this principle.

I was simply playing devil's advocate and voicing the final rationale utilized by the Bush supporters for going to war - the ends justifying the means. So no, I don't agree with it, nor have I ever. It's logically flawed to begin with, and even more embarrassingly wrong given the current outcome.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...