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Originally posted by hardcore trancer ya someone from TEXAS would know canadian politcs. lol

actually as you stated, I am from Texas! and I know pure Bull Shite when I see it, and you spew nothing but pure BS from that cake hole you call a mouth on every frigging Post you add to this board.



edit: I never professed I knew anything about Canadian Politics, but it doesn't take genius to know that both countries thrive on each other.

Last edited by LazFX on Oct-25-2006 at 10:20

Hardcore, thanks for the support, I might be incorrect on some of these issues, of course, as its my view and opinion, but ...

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Originally posted by occrider The problem with the strategy you outlined is that it would be a strategy whereby Canada wouldn't be persuing its own interests, but rather your interests. If it were more lucrative to trade with the EU, China, Russia, or Japan in the place of the US than Canada would probably be doing it already. Given the fact that Canada is the largest trading partner for the US, have you considered that the US is probably as dependant upon Canada as she is to us? If that argument doesn't work than think about it this way. Canada trades in a lot of other goods than oil. What do you think would happen if Canada joined OPEC and slapped quotas on oil? You really think countries would respect free trade agreements with all its other goods? How exportable would Canadian lumber be if it were slapped with a hefty import tarriff by the US? A policy of restrictive trade may work for Middle Eastern countries that have no other exportable goods but Canada has many other things that it exports where it does not hold such a monopolistic market on.

I still think Canada should commit more to other countries, to balance its economy, not to be too dependent on USA. I already stated US will be fine without Canada, for USA Saudi Arabia is more important. Its Canada who will become worse off when USA starts pressuring us or when they go down we go down with them.

Finally, USA found some sense into coming back to honour the lumber NAFTA treaty, thankfully ... even though this won't bring back all the money, business lost to the trade dispute, blockade of our meat to US, even when they have their own mad cow disease breakouts.

Canada is rich in resources, we have the cabability to work with the world community on OUR own terms, pursue our own interests and not to become too dependent on one country, just like EU is trying not to be too dependent on Russia for gas and oil. But instead we follow American policies and send troops to Afghanistan to fight the American war, a pointless war in which our fellow Canadian troops are dying every month. And for what - there is no democracy in Afghanistan. Osama is long gone. And the money spent by us on that war is a complete waste. We dont need Afghanistan. 9/11 didnt happen to us. We should instead docus on defending our borders that sending half of our army to a country half way around the world.

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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer ya someone from TEXAS would know canadian politcs. lol

fair enough. just don't pretend to understand ours, ok?

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Originally posted by Q5echo fair enough. just don't pretend to understand ours, ok?

+1

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I still think Canada should commit more to other countries, to balance its economy, not to be too dependent on USA.

As I already pointed out, we have been increasing trade with many other countries over the past decade or so. Do you not remember Chretien leading all sorts of "Team Canada" deligations to growing economies around the world. Those trade missions have been incredibly successful as has our involvement in various international associations (most noteably the Pacific Rim trade organization... can't think of what it's called right now). Notwithstanding the increased trade we are doing with other countries the US is still or largest trading partner and closest friend. This will never change because it is a relationship that is mutually beneficial.... cooperation with the US and a robust exchange of goods and services across the boarder is essential for the economies of both nations. Given our shared culture, values, geography and history this will never change nor should it.

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I already stated US will be fine without Canada, for USA Saudi Arabia is more important.

This is simply incorrect. Is Saudi Arabia important, yes, however, Canada is the largest trading partner for the US. Not only do they export more goods and services to us then any other country they import more goods and services from us then any other country. In order to support their industry they require our resources, parts/components, human resources, equipment, etc from Canada. Sure, they could get these things elsewhere but that would be less economical for them thus negatively impacting their economy. From Saudi Arabia they get oil and oil exclusively.... this is not nearly as vital as the goods and services they receive from Canada nor would it be as costly to them if they had to obtain oil from another source (of course they presently obtain it from many sources).

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Canada is rich in resources, we have the cabability to work with the world community on OUR own terms

Indeed we are and we do. Part of dealing with the world on our own terms includes, sometimes, supporting our friends. Additionally, as I stated earlier, our interests are often consistant with those of the US due to our shared values, culture, history, and economy. Just because we are in agreement with the US on one issue or another does not mean we have defered our autonomy to the US.

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But instead we follow American policies and send troops to Afghanistan to fight the American war, a pointless war in which our fellow Canadian troops are dying every month.

First, they aren't fellow Canaidan troops unless you are yourself a troop. Second, we joined the war in Afganistan for a number of reasons. Sure, the US asked for our assistance, however, that was not the only consideration. Afganistan was run by a government that is diabolically opposed to the values of us and our allies and were actively assisting groups dedicated to the disruption of world security. The disruption of world security is directly opposed to our interests, thus it is in our interest to assist in ousting the Taliban. Since our initial involvement we have increased our role as it is important to ensure that the Taliban does not return to power in Afganistan, which is a certainty if Nato were to pull out prior to the establishment of order and security.

quote:

And for what - there is no democracy in Afghanistan. Osama is long gone. And the money spent by us on that war is a complete waste. We dont need Afghanistan. 9/11 didnt happen to us. We should instead docus on defending our borders that sending half of our army to a country half way around the world.

a) Democracy does exist in Afganistan now, what does not exist is order. Order is necessary to allow a democracy to function. The role of Nato troops in Afganistan is to establish order, this takes time. So long as our resolve remains and the citizenry is assisted in securing their needs order will take root because all people desire order over chaos.

b) Capturing Osama is really a secondary objective, deminishing his ability to operate freely is paramount. That has been accomplished.

c) As stated earlier security in Afganistan furthers our interests thus we do need Afganistan to be a secure and responsible state.

d) September 11th 2001, while happening in the US was an attack on western culture. Moreover, the NATO agreement (which we are founding members of an orginal signatories to) states that an attack on any Treaty Organization member is an attack on all and must be responded to accordingly. This is what we call a mutual security agreement. It exists so that all members can be assured that they will not be left to their own devices if they are targeted by a hostile state/organization. In order for that agreement to mean anything all signatories must respect it. As good allies we have honoured this agreement. It is in our best interest to do so because should we ever be attacked we would count on our allies to assist us. Under the mutual security agreement that is an essential part of the NATO agreement 9/11 did, in fact, happen to us. Additionally, several dozen Canadian citizens were killed in the attacks on the WTC.

e) As stated above, respecting the NATO agreement is in part acting to secure ourselves as it bolsters the mutual security agreement. I should also point out that our boarders are well protected by ourselves and our friends to the south by land, sea, and air. You may not be aware but the US and Canada pool resources to protect north america by sea and air. As far as threats from within our countries go the millitary has little to do with protecting us from them, that is a policeing and intelligence responsibility thus is not effected by troop deployment. Finally, if there were to be a threat within Canada that we were insufficiently equiped to respond to due to our foreign troop deployments it is exceedingly likely that the US would be willing and ready to assist us at the first request for their help.... this is part of the benefit one receives from having and being a good neighbour.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer ooooh FFS every damn government is corrupt one way or another,what?you think Harper government is not corrupt? At least when the liberals were in charge they made smart decisions on froegin politics and werent just standing on the Americans side no matter what. LONG LIVE THE LIBERALS!!!!!

Unfortunately for you, there's no comparison when it comes to the 'Lieberals' corruption, hence their ousting.

Billions of dollars of taxpayers' money out the window.

...and at least the Harper government is actually making decisions, unlike the sit on their ass for 12 year 'Lieberals'; Harper has accomplished more in less than 1/2 a year than they did again in 12 YEARS combined.

Don't let your hatred for the Americans blind you from the fact that we have our own policies that had nothing to do with the them that actually went forward as well; not EVERYTHING that's been done has had to do with appeasing the States, that's just ludicrous.

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Moral Hazard seems to have this argument well in hand, however, I can't help but make two incidental arguments.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I still think Canada should commit more to other countries, to balance its economy, not to be too dependent on USA. I already stated US will be fine without Canada, for USA Saudi Arabia is more important. Its Canada who will become worse off when USA starts pressuring us or when they go down we go down with them.

What? Dude please do the slightest bit of research. The US imports more crude oil and petroleum products from both Canada and Mexico than it does from Saudi Arabia. As a matter of fact the US imports 25% more oil from Canada than it does from Saudi Arabia. So please explain how the US would be fine without Canada?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ent/import.html

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Canada is rich in resources, we have the cabability to work with the world community on OUR own terms, pursue our own interests and not to become too dependent on one country, just like EU is trying not to be too dependent on Russia for gas and oil.

Sigh ...

The US relies on Canada (it's greatest oil importer) for approximately 18% of its total oil supply. The EU relies on Gazprom alone for nearly a quarter of the EU's total gas supplies. And that figure will rise significantly once the EON and BASF Baltic Sea pipeline is completed. Yup, the EU is trying real hard not to become too dependant on Russia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5096830.stm

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by occrider Moral Hazard seems to have this argument well in hand

That means a lot to me coming from you.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Q5echo fair enough. just don't pretend to understand ours, ok?

Its easy to understand American politics. The most corrupt politicians in the world reside here and the people let them get re-elected and let them and their friends make millions of dollars of our money. And these people have paid vacations by corporations or special interest groups. These groups also pay for school's for their children or private planes so they can travel in comfort. There is nothing difficult to understand about American politics. Other than HOW can the people allow for things to continue the way they are.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Its easy to understand American politics. The most corrupt politicians in the world reside here and the people let them get re-elected and let them and their friends make millions of dollars of our money. And these people have paid vacations by corporations or special interest groups. These groups also pay for school's for their children or private planes so they can travel in comfort. There is nothing difficult to understand about American politics. Other than HOW can the people allow for things to continue the way they are.

Amen!!
Now why the hell would I want Canada to be involved with a corrupt government like the Americans? sadly we have no choice and have to always try to keep them happy or else they will fuck us over in economics.

There is only a few months left for Harper tho and then we'll get our Liberals back again.

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Billions of dollars of taxpayers' money out the window.

millions not billions,and stop using this as an excuse,I can name you alot of good things they have done for this country,but I know you will choose to ingore them regardless.

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...and at least the Harper government is actually making decisions, unlike the sit on their ass for 12 year 'Lieberals'; Harper has accomplished more in less than 1/2 a year than they did again in 12 YEARS combined.

Riiiiight just like how they decided to be on Israels side the whole time during the war and ironically the Americans were on Israels side as well.

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not EVERYTHING that's been done has had to do with appeasing the States, that's just ludicrous.

Sorry to break it to you but that is the case 90% of the time when it comes to Harper,it is like his whole agenda is to please Bush no matter what.

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