Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Losing the PR war at home and abroad (Afghanistan related)
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Shug
Both strategically and tactically, it has been proven throughout history that it is impossible to win a war against guerillas in a landlocked Asiatic country.... especially with a foreign volunteer civilian force.

There needs to be NATO presence in war-torn Afghanistan, this I agree with. The Taliban kept tight repressive reins on that nation. But my opinion is that Canada needs to shift the mandate from aggressive military "sweep and clear" missions to primarily and exclusively those of rebuilding and feet-on-the-ground diplomatic relations.

It's impossible to win the hearts and minds of the people when there's collateral damage. The Taliban are regaining a foothold with the Afghani common people because after so many years, there hasn't been any appreciable improvement - quite the opposite, in fact. Under the Taliban regime, sure they were repressed and restricted from growing their mainstay cash crop (opium), but they were relatively out of the way from stray crossfire and unexploded cluster bombs.

Until the NATO forces, led primarily by Canada, change and adapt the military mandate, the Afghanistan occupation will remain a bleed on resources, both human and otherwise. It's just bad strategy; with the current execution of the occupation and rebuilding, the war is unwinnable and unending. You can't win a guerilla war against imbedded insurgents with a conventional military force.... especially against a people who have a history of resisting foreign occupiers since the Mongol Invasion in the thirteenth century.

I'm not saying pull out, I'm saying we need to re-examine the currently-vague mission objectives.


You don't think for a second, given Canada's history for negotiation, that wouldn't have been thought of?

Secondly, this isn't going to happen overnight or with the snap of a finger. To me, this is the biggest PR obstacle in our Western, "Gimmie-Now-Insta-Gratification" mindset.
People like instant results these days and the thought of slow, methodical, purposeful steps is causing their ADD symptoms to flair up. The MSM (Main Stream Media), of course, doesn't help in all this either...

There's no easy way around this and yes lives will be lost, however I have faith in our Canadian troops in that they know what they're doing.
I've read several articles in major Canadian magazines regarding our troops in Afghanistan; how they actually talk to the locals, have tea with them, respect the fact that we're in THEIR land but that we're there with a purpose.
I'm very proud of them and so should you.


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Last edited by Fir3start3r on Nov-02-2006 at 04:54

Old Post Nov-02-2006 01:17  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Fir3start3r Click here to Send Fir3start3r a Private Message Add Fir3start3r to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Shug
tranceaddict in training



Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto

^^^ Ah yes, an thinly-veiled attack on my patriotism/nationalism. How quaint. The rest of your post hasn't really broken any new ground in the thread, so I'll respectfully acknowledge the post... but there's nothing really new or relevant to address.

quote:
If you think Canada has very little to gain from being in Afghanistan, then why do you agree that Canada should be there still?


Because there is room to do good, and we have made leaps and bounds (especially for the cause of women and co-op education in Afghanistan). I'm cautious, however, to see Canada get pulled into the same bear trap and economic bleeding that the Soviets did a couple decades ago.... esp. if it ends up being all for nothing, with an attritioned withdrawl after a decade of causualties and billions of dollars.

It's good to see some relatively-intelligent discourse on this board. I think I'll stick around.

Oh... and Eldar. Although I never play, I just paint 'em up.

Old Post Nov-02-2006 04:03  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Shug Click here to Send Shug a Private Message Visit Shug's homepage! Add Shug to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by Shug
Because there is room to do good, and we have made leaps and bounds (especially for the cause of women and co-op education in Afghanistan). I'm cautious, however, to see Canada get pulled into the same bear trap and economic bleeding that the Soviets did a couple decades ago.... esp. if it ends up being all for nothing, with an attritioned withdrawl after a decade of causualties and billions of dollars.

The major difference between Soviet and NATO in Afghanistan is that Soviet stayed as occupiers, where as NATO is invited to stay by Afghans. (well, most of them)

The level of resistance faced by NATO is nowhere near the level Red Army faced.

I'm curious to see level of funding Canadian govt put towards CIDA and other humanitarian projects though. Last I recall is something like 800million over 5 years for Afghanistan.

We'll have to see though. You add religious extremism to the mix and anything can happen. (Although most of that stuff seems to be directed in Iraq than Afghanistan)


___________________
Latest mix: Yohan - Full Spectrum (Fall 14 promo)
Like my stuff? Join my FB group here!
quote:
Originally posted by chinamon
not true. i say "ugh"
but i am a tranny.
quote:
Originally posted by kotsy
lol colour me retarded

Old Post Nov-02-2006 04:12  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Yohan Click here to Send Yohan a Private Message Add Yohan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Shug
^^^ Ah yes, an thinly-veiled attack on my patriotism/nationalism. How quaint.


No idea what you're talking about...but ok...

That certainly wasn't my attempt, I was just posting how I felt about it.

I guess the second thing behind insta-gratification would be ego then...


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Nov-02-2006 04:56  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Fir3start3r Click here to Send Fir3start3r a Private Message Add Fir3start3r to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Shug
tranceaddict in training



Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto

I was talking about this line:

quote:
I'm very proud of them and so should you.


Read in a certain way, it implies that I'm not proud of the Canadian military forces. Down south, it's a common attack from the right when someone criticizes the administration's actions and policies.

Old Post Nov-02-2006 18:41  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Shug Click here to Send Shug a Private Message Visit Shug's homepage! Add Shug to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
7-4-7
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Scarborough, Ontario

I love reading the conservative love-in here...problem is that whether or not the left supported this war, the reality is that the world and the info related to rationalizing this war has changed dramatically.

Conservative American agression was built on lies. Then we go to war. To support it.

And since public opinion will blame the current, rather than the previous administration the right will be out and the left will look like they were installed, with the nuts to change the war agenda.

Poor right.

Old Post Nov-03-2006 06:03  Italy
Click Here to See the Profile for 7-4-7 Click here to Send 7-4-7 a Private Message Add 7-4-7 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by 7-4-7
I love reading the conservative love-in here...problem is that whether or not the left supported this war, the reality is that the world and the info related to rationalizing this war has changed dramatically.

Conservative American agression was built on lies. Then we go to war. To support it.

And since public opinion will blame the current, rather than the previous administration the right will be out and the left will look like they were installed, with the nuts to change the war agenda.

Poor right.

Don't confuse Afghanistan with Iraq


___________________
Latest mix: Yohan - Full Spectrum (Fall 14 promo)
Like my stuff? Join my FB group here!
quote:
Originally posted by chinamon
not true. i say "ugh"
but i am a tranny.
quote:
Originally posted by kotsy
lol colour me retarded

Old Post Nov-03-2006 06:06  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Yohan Click here to Send Yohan a Private Message Add Yohan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
7-4-7
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Scarborough, Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by EvilTree
Don't confuse Afghanistan with Iraq


i didnt.

Old Post Nov-03-2006 15:41  Italy
Click Here to See the Profile for 7-4-7 Click here to Send 7-4-7 a Private Message Add 7-4-7 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by 7-4-7
i didnt.

Care to explain your reasoning? If you're going to make a statement such as you did, ppl do get curious


___________________
Latest mix: Yohan - Full Spectrum (Fall 14 promo)
Like my stuff? Join my FB group here!
quote:
Originally posted by chinamon
not true. i say "ugh"
but i am a tranny.
quote:
Originally posted by kotsy
lol colour me retarded

Old Post Nov-03-2006 16:29  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Yohan Click here to Send Yohan a Private Message Add Yohan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
7-4-7
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Scarborough, Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by EvilTree
Care to explain your reasoning? If you're going to make a statement such as you did, ppl do get curious


which statement, there were a couple.

Old Post Nov-03-2006 18:57  Italy
Click Here to See the Profile for 7-4-7 Click here to Send 7-4-7 a Private Message Add 7-4-7 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by 7-4-7
which statement, there were a couple.

Mainly curious why you think Afghanistan and Iraq is same thing. (Or am I mistaken?)


___________________
Latest mix: Yohan - Full Spectrum (Fall 14 promo)
Like my stuff? Join my FB group here!
quote:
Originally posted by chinamon
not true. i say "ugh"
but i am a tranny.
quote:
Originally posted by kotsy
lol colour me retarded

Old Post Nov-03-2006 19:04  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Yohan Click here to Send Yohan a Private Message Add Yohan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Orbitus
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Markham, Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by 7-4-7
Conservative American agression was built on lies.


I guess you're referring to Iraq and Afghanistan?
Maybe the US should have just come out and said it was because of 9-11. However seeing that this is not a conventional war with one clear enemy (or Country)it is difficult to declare war(on a country) and get approval from the UN and public at large. Thus the WMD excuse. It's just politics for those who have a hard time with reality. Remember the Jack Nicholson line : "Because you can't handle the truth".
Bottom line is the 9-11 attack was no different than Pearl Harbour. (Except 911 targeted innocent civilians). How could you not respond to such an attack??


___________________
Is it Saturday yet??

Old Post Nov-04-2006 00:25  Netherlands Antilles
Click Here to See the Profile for Orbitus Click here to Send Orbitus a Private Message Add Orbitus to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Losing the PR war at home and abroad (Afghanistan related)
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackID Beatiful track !!!! [2005] [10]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackC-Quence - "Endorphine" (Hydroid's Breaking the Law Remix) [2008]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:27.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!