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Originally posted by Zeonfiend No, it sounds like a logical conclusion to make based on prior events motivated by ethnic/racial activities that are patently against the law of the society in which the individuals were residing. Fact is, until we start developing psi-cops with telepathy, security will take precedence over feelings. If a significant portion of an ethnic group are prone to violence against another group for whatever reason (cultural, religious, etc.), then logically it must be assumed that all individuals under that grouping have the potential for that same action, be it racial or otherwise. In the end, it's no different than the profiling that insurance companies inflict on millions of Americans on the highways that establish how much they're going to take out of you for premiums. Do male drivers ages 18-25 that wear glasses pitch fits when they get shafted six ways to Sunday on insurance because their imbecile generational colleagues screwed up time and again, often killing others in the process of their own stupidity? Is that not profiling based on age, or gender, or physical ability? Why is that "okay" but not racial profiling for potential criminal activity? Of course, that can also be taken to a ludicrous extreme, ie - the 92 year-old woman who shot three cops just a couple days ago before being gunned down herself being used to profile all elderly females with handguns as being possible would-be cop-killers. There should be some common sense, both in toeing the line of security and in granting the benefit of the doubt.

I need to tackle this response later...

I agree with most of it though,

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Originally posted by Slow Motion It's the fault of the kid and the campus police (I call them Rent-a-Cops)... Battle of egos. The RentaCops had tasers.... he had a mouth... who's gonna win? Not that their actions were justified. I think they took it to far. Common sense people. The racial profiling card is thrown to charge the entire situation with more political BS than is called for. Same with the idiot kid for screaming something about Homeland security. The ID situation with the kid is inconsequential. Most Universities, for security purposes will ask for ID. They are private or State property and are well within their rights. At my college Pre-9-11... One could not enter our library without ID under any circumstances. Due to a rape in past years. That said, this will be big news.... the cops will be fired and the kid will sue the university for a large some of money and will be settled before it goes to trial. Hypothetical question: What would you do as a security guard, if there had been a bomb scare the week prior at UCLA, and some teen-aged male of Middle Eastern-decent refused to produce ID when entering a building with a hundred students present? Would you profile him? Just made me think about things that run through people's heads.

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Phillip Zimbardo The Stanford prison experiment was a landmark psychological study of the human response to captivity, in particular, to the real world circumstances of prison life, and the effects of imposed social roles on behavior. It was conducted in 1971 by a team of researchers led by Philip Zimbardo of Stanford University.

When people are given authority (i.e: given the role of police officers) they can react in so many inappropiate ways. For ages, There has been a history of "reported" violence from authorities to minorities. I think it's mostly about what Zoenfiend talked about. Some racial groups are more violent than others.

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Originally posted by diggerz I need to tackle this response later... I agree with most of it though,

w3rd.

I guess I deserve to be zapped a zillion times while I'm cuffed on the library floor too then for refusing to be profiled. Not willing to participate in my own profiling = desrving of brutality.

I suppose those of you faulting the kid for having a sack and some selfrespect also think concentration camps (or 'detainment centers' if you wan to be PC) for the Japanese during was also legitimate. "Hey, those Japos had it coming!"

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I guess I deserve to be zapped a zillion times while I'm cuffed on the library floor too then for refusing to be profiled. Not willing to participate in my own profiling = desrving of brutality. I suppose those of you faulting the kid for having a sack and some selfrespect also think concentration camps (or 'detainment centers' if you wan to be PC) for the Japanese during was also legitimate. "Hey, those Japos had it coming!"

word

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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quote:

Originally posted by Slow Motion It's the fault of the kid and the campus police (I call them Rent-a-Cops)... Battle of egos. The RentaCops had tasers.... he had a mouth... who's gonna win? Not that their actions were justified. I think they took it to far. Common sense people. The racial profiling card is thrown to charge the entire situation with more political BS than is called for. Same with the idiot kid for screaming something about Homeland security. The ID situation with the kid is inconsequential. Most Universities, for security purposes will ask for ID. They are private or State property and are well within their rights. At my college Pre-9-11... One could not enter our library without ID under any circumstances. Due to a rape in past years. That said, this will be big news.... the cops will be fired and the kid will sue the university for a large some of money and will be settled before it goes to trial. Hypothetical question: What would you do as a security guard, if there had been a bomb scare the week prior at UCLA, and some teen-aged male of Middle Eastern-decent refused to produce ID when entering a building with a hundred students present? Would you profile him? Just made me think about things that run through people's heads.

The individual did not help the situation with his actions or words. However, the campus officers were not security guards or privately trained. They are certified law enforcement officers that have to conform to the same code of conduct and procedures that any law enforcement official in California has to. And from what I read in the CCI, their code of conduct is not much different as the one that TCLEOSE certified officers must abide by.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z also think concentration camps (or 'detainment centers' if you wan to be PC) for the Japanese during was also legitimate. "Hey, those Japos had it coming!"

The Japanese had their own concentration camps for captured american and phillipino troops; this may be debatable, but I doubt any attrocities that may have occured our at American detainment centers were even a 10th of what occured at the Japanese camps (ie death marches, starvation, public executions)

0.02

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Originally posted by Matthias The Japanese had their own concentration camps for captured american and phillipino troops; this may be debatable, but I doubt any attrocities that may have occured our at American detainment centers were even a 10th of what occured at the Japanese camps (ie death marches, starvation, public executions) 0.02

Well, yes. The Japanese were pretty fucking brutal during WW2, especially towards the Chinese. Two wrongs still don't make a right though.

EDIT: I saw you open for Ferry Corsten @ Sky, nice!

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z EDIT: I saw you open for Ferry Corsten @ Sky, nice!

Thanks bro, that gig was alot of fun. I've missed playing out in Austin

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I guess I deserve to be zapped a zillion times while I'm cuffed on the library floor too then for refusing to be profiled. Not willing to participate in my own profiling = desrving of brutality. I suppose those of you faulting the kid for having a sack and some selfrespect also think concentration camps (or 'detainment centers' if you wan to be PC) for the Japanese during was also legitimate. "Hey, those Japos had it coming!"

No one is saying that at all. I truly believe that no matter what the kid had done, he would have been in a 'no win' situation. But, let me give some words of wisdom to all. I tell you this knowing what goes through a law enforcement officers mind. They look at what happens to police officers nationwide and only collect the negative information. It's a defense mechanism, as wrong as it may be, that prepares them for the 8 to 10 hours that they have on their next shift. I am, by no means, saying this is right on their part. I am only telling you how tuned up they are when they hit the beat for the next shift. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you feel threatened or that your civil rights will be violated, think about what is going to be the path of least resistence and go in that direction. All of the incident will be captured on video and will work to your benefit, regardless of what you do. It's a matter of keeping your senses about you and keeping in mind that for that moment, the officers will have the power, but only for that moment. You have the power to manipulate the situation if you can put your pride aside and quit thinking that because you have a partial or full college education that you can dictate to them how the scenario plays out. I will tell you that I would laugh at these 20-somethings that I arrested that would try to control a situation with me by telling me that they know their right, by virtue of of the college eduation that they either have receieved or are currently receiving. Not all LE officers have only their GED. I have two undergrads and an MBA. At the time I was a working the job I had completed my first degree (my junior year). So, just think about the situation, stay calm, and use common sense about what is best for you in that moment.

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Originally posted by djjonas No one is saying that at all. I truly believe that no matter what the kid had done, he would have been in a 'no win' situation. But, let me give some words of wisdom to all. I tell you this knowing what goes through a law enforcement officers mind. They look at what happens to police officers nationwide and only collect the negative information. It's a defense mechanism, as wrong as it may be, that prepares them for the 8 to 10 hours that they have on their next shift. I am, by no means, saying this is right on their part. I am only telling you how tuned up they are when they hit the beat for the next shift. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you feel threatened or that your civil rights will be violated, think about what is going to be the path of least resistence and go in that direction. All of the incident will be captured on video and will work to your benefit, regardless of what you do. It's a matter of keeping your senses about you and keeping in mind that for that moment, the officers will have the power, but only for that moment. You have the power to manipulate the situation if you can put your pride aside and quit thinking that because you have a partial or full college education that you can dictate to them how the scenario plays out. I will tell you that I would laugh at these 20-somethings that I arrested that would try to control a situation with me by telling me that they know their right, by virtue of of the college eduation that they either have receieved or are currently receiving. Not all LE officers have only their GED. I have two undergrads and an MBA. At the time I was a working the job I had completed my first degree (my junior year). So, just think about the situation, stay calm, and use common sense about what is best for you in that moment.

I can't disagree that being more street smart and cool headed is generally more desirable in an unfavourable situation. At the same time though, I don't think Americans should have to worry about their body potentially being an insulator for upto 50,000 volts of low-amperage electricity at the discretion of law enforcement, or any other authority figure. Not in the absense of a physical threat, especially on a college campus for failure to present an ID. Don't take it the wrong way, I'm certainly not suggesting you implied that .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I'm all for putting down officers execution style they only serve themselves just like Jonas said they only think about the bad. Fuck the path of least resistence stand up for yourself. I sure have, and I've gotten my ass kicked by police officers. And they turned the camera off on a 'routine traffic stop' only so they could physically abuse me then lie about it in their report. I say kill them all let Satan sort them out.

No doubt he will claim all of their souls. not a single one will be saved.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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