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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bush pulling needed troops out of Afghanistan - AGAIN
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
i have no idea. well i kinda do but im not gonna air it right now.
so your still convinced Bush made this call, right? he said f**k all you guys i want this Btn in Iraq right now. that just defies logic. |
Couldn't have said it better.
In truth I cannot definitively state if the Commander in Chief or anyone above Conway ordered him to send his battalion because there's no information in that article or any other article I've looked up to demonstrate as such. I will concede that point simply on the lack of evidence.
However, the point I'm making is a very simple one and is different than stating "Bush directly sent this battalion to Iraq" to which you are seemingly creating as a straw man. I am simply stating that without Bush's asinine escalation plan, there would be no need to send any battalions out of Afghanistan during a time when it's clearly noted that we need our troops to stay put there to fight off the growing Taliban insurgency.
I can't see how anyone can disagree with that statement, even you.
| quote: | | i don't give a f**k about NATO. NATO operates under it's own umbrella as far as manning. |
Did I miss something? Was this directed towards me? When did NATO enter the argument?
| quote: | | i don't care if its not an editorial or if it was written on the back of a napkin by a 3rd grader you are willing to put the entire credibility of the ground Commanders in Afghanistan on the line over one vague sentence in the paper. |
My point stands regardless of your tirade:
| quote: | | I am simply stating that without Bush's asinine escalation plan, there would be no need to send any battalions out of Afghanistan during a time when it's clearly noted that we need our troops to stay put there to fight off the growing Taliban insurgency. |
Again I cannot argue and will not argue about General Conway ordering that battalion to go because I have no evidence to support whether or not he was ordered to do so. However, whether he was ordered or not does not refute the point I am making. You do understand this, right?
| quote: | | why anyone would do that only tells me they really aren't interested in a solution because it's not their war. |
I see you've been listening to Bush's radio address yesterday morning - criticizing those dissenters of his ridiculous escalation plan for not offering solutions. The problem is, numerous folks have offered plans, the most recent one by people he fucking appointed - Baker's Iraqi Study Group:
| quote: | Our most important recommendations call for new and enhanced diplomatic and political efforts in Iraq and the region, and a change in the primary mission of U.S. forces in Iraq that will enable the United States to begin to move its combat forces out of Iraq responsibly.
...Given the ability of Iran and Syria to influence events within Iraq and their interest in avoiding chaos in Iraq, the United States should try to engage them constructively.
... The primary mission of U.S. forces in Iraq should evolve to one of supporting the Iraqi army, which would take over primary responsibility for combat operations. By the first quarter of 2008, subject to unexpected developments in the security situation on the ground, all combat brigades not necessary for force protection could be out of Iraq.... The United States must not make an openended commitment to keep large numbers of American troops deployed in Iraq.
http://216.35.221.77/templates/stor...storyId=6586565 |
People with half a brain (except Fred Kagan from AEI who created this fucked up idea in the first place) understand and embrace the most obvious fact that this issue needs to be resolved DIPLOMATICALLY, not militarily. Hell, even my most ardent Bush supporting Senator Brownback states this and disagrees with the escalation. Jesus, you lose Brownback on this shit you know you're in deep doodoo.
But now that we're on the question, I don't think I've heard your thoughts on the matter. I know you tend to support Bush unquestionably, but I wonder if there's a slight sense of doubt creeping into your brain yet as there clearly has been for a growing number of Bush supporters. Do you support this escalation, and if so - why?
Here's another fervent Conservative and Bush supporter turning trenchcoat and becoming yet another anti-American for you: Rod Dreher, contributor for National Review and Dallas Morning News op-ed writer. Also a self-proscribed "practicing Christian and political conservative."
| quote: | As President Bush marched the country to war with Iraq, even some voices on the Right warned that this was a fool's errand. I dismissed them angrily. I thought them unpatriotic.
But almost four years later, I see that I was the fool.
In Iraq, this Republican President for whom I voted twice has shamed our country with weakness and incompetence, and the consequences of his failure will be far, far worse than anything Carter did.
The fraud, the mendacity, the utter haplessness of our government's conduct of the Iraq war have been shattering to me.
It wasn't supposed to turn out like this. Not under a Republican President.
I turn 40 next month -- middle aged at last -- a time of discovering limits, finitude. I expected that. But what I did not expect was to see the limits of finitude of American power revealed so painfully.
I did not expect Vietnam.
As I sat in my office last night watching President Bush deliver his big speech, I seethed over the waste, the folly, the stupidity of this war.
I had a heretical thought for a conservative - that I have got to teach my kids that they must never, ever take Presidents and Generals at their word - that their government will send them to kill and die for noble-sounding rot - that they have to question authority.
On the walk to the parking garage, it hit me. Hadn't the hippies tried to tell my generation that? Why had we scorned them so blithely?
Will my children, too small now to understand Iraq, take me seriously when I tell them one day what powerful men, whom their father once believed in, did to this country? Heavy thoughts for someone who is still a conservative despite it all. It was a long drive home.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...storyId=6817201 |
One by one, the rats are jumping off the Titanic. Shall you continue re-shuffling the deck chairs with the remaining ardent supporting Limbaugh/Hannity crew?
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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...
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