quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby So... What exactly does freedom mean? Anyone know?

Apparently not.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo some of us realize freedom of speech is irrelavent here. there is no 1st Amendment in an airport or airplane no matter what country youre in.

I said it before, airport or airplane isn't just a standalone country. The company who runs it is a part of a country which has laws.

Why do you think we see all that buzz around the US corporations?
I guess, because they are trying to put them self above the laws.
In my opinion, it isn't right.

quote:

you're waaayy generalizing to fit your flawed free speech argument. apples and oranges. when was the last time someone was killed with a newspaper?

when was the last time someone was killed with a tshirt saying: "Bush is a terrorist No.1"?

They police didn't arrest the guy and prosecute him for treason. That would be what would happen without free speech. I don't see what is so difficult to understand that if you're in a private place that the owner of that place doesn't have to put up with your shit. If someone comes into a private place like your home or your place of business you have the right to entertain them, sell to them, service their gun, or tell them to get lost. I still fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

Latest Mix

Here's the easiest solution if you want to make that airline give back freedom of speech:

Boycott the airline! If you don't like it, there's plenty of others. I knew of plenty of people who say to me that Wal-Mart is bad and puts small businesses out of business, child labour, cheap wages in Asia, bla bla - yet they go to the freakin Wal-Mart every week! I mean, come on ...

If enough people will stop using that company's service they will change the policies. Until then, unless you pass a law stating that freedom of speech must be followed even in your own house, and company's quarters are not public area, but THEIR territory for which THEY pay taxes, just use some other way of transportation.

Oh, I dont want no neo-cons in my house, thanks, so I am against any laws that prevent me kicking someone out of MY OWN house because they're neo-cons without prosecution. No thanks.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller when was the last time someone was killed with a tshirt saying: "Bush is a terrorist No.1"?

probably never. but people who have vaporized literally thousands with airplanes would have killed for a shirt like his.

how ironic is that?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo probably never. but people who have vaporized literally thousands with airplanes would have killed for a shirt like his. how ironic is that?

... and the death of these people was taken advantage of for government agenda and only G-d knows how many THOUSANDS MORE innocent civilians have died as a result - and with no proof for either WMD or 9/11 connection. Cheers!

I am pretty sure these innocent Americans who were vapourized in the 9/11 attacks (r.i.p.) wouldn't be happy knowing this.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium and the death of these people was taken advantage of for government agenda and only G-d knows how many THOUSANDS MORE innocent civilians have died as a result - and with no proof for either WMD or 9/11 connection. Cheers!

well, you're entitled to your opinion i guess. the people that are risking their lives trying to prevent that from ever happening again would disagree with you.

quote:

I am pretty sure these innocent Americans who were vapourized in the 9/11 attacks (r.i.p.) wouldn't be happy knowing this.

who knows, man...they're dead.

It would be a huge blow to liberties and rights if the airline couldn't refuse service.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail It would be a huge blow to liberties and rights if the airline couldn't refuse service.

Yes it would be quite ironic wouldnt it, much the same as basically letting anyone clobber through your personal property with muddy boots and being unable to legally do anything about it.

If you downsize the viewpoint of it and stop screaming free-speach for just a second, say someone, an associate or whatever hops in your car with something you don't like them wearing. Tshirt with something racist on it, pictures of squashed puppies or heck maybe theyre just wearing a raw, bloody cow hide or something and you don't want to put up with it.

You don't like it and tell them to get out
"But I chipped in $5 for petrol"
"So? It's my car and I dont have to put up with your crap"
They say no and refuse to reasonable demands to stop it or wear something decent.
You call police, cops drag them out.

Now, under the new-improved-wear-the-hell-what-I-want laws we're suggesting with airlines could basically apply to any kind of situation concerning yourself. Where is my legal right to kick people out of the property I own?
Oh thats right it was ditched in early 2007 because some middle aged whacker was being a complete knob end and causing trouble because the nasty airline objected to it. And at the end, where is the fundamental respect for other people at a fairly simple level where youre both going from A-B and lets try not to rub each other up to the point where a common chore becomes a screaming, hissy fest like a kid complaining he wants a chocolate bar and mummy won't buy him one.

I mean really!
If basic human functions and activities turn into a complete, foot stamping, fight the system load of bollocks then nothing is going to get done!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Apparently not.

Yeah.

I was being serious... though I am not surprised no one could come up with an answer, since it's not a real entity. Which makes it all the more interesting how we toss the word around, and how psychomimetically embroiled it is in all levels of our society.

So, once again... does anyone want to take a stab at what freedom actually means?

This is a tough topic, because yeah, the airline is obviously being very selective as to whom can fly on its planes. At the same time, though, it would be anti-democratic to force the airline to tolerate what they dont like on their property. Its one thing when you walk down the street wearing anti-Bush paraphernelia (sorry if I spelled it wrong), because thats public area. When you get onto private property, where businesses reside, they have a right to refuse you service, I believe, cause its their property. Kinda like in my own house, if I make it a business and sell some t-shirts or whatever, I can refuse service to someone if I dont like their attitude (even though it might affect my business negatively). It would be a violation of free speach if I was not allowed to decide what I like on my property. If you are a man, try joing the women's only fitness club!

Of course, businesses usually place customers as their top priority, and dont decide to serve them or not based on what music they listen to or which political spectrum they prefer. I believe that the airlines have used 9/11 to become more selective, literally taken advantage of the fear and making themselves feel better while they're at it. Its fine with me, but I wont fly on that crappy airline. I mean, I cant imagine the service I'll be getting if they dont like this n that. I'll take my business elsewhere. Easy as that.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

This guy went through too much effort in my book, Guess he must suffer from uh oh the oh so original.

Bush Derangement Syndrome

Look he should just turn his t-shirt inside out and get on the damn plane or put on a jacket, other than that Bush isn't worth the effort of a funky cotton tee. Some point he wants to prove with the airline I suppose.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras