quote:

Originally posted by gehzumteufel grandparent rights? wtf are those?

rights for visitation etc... but ultimately they want their daughter to get the kids back despite the fact she is totally messed up

the law in France is a bit weird.
I also happen to know a lady from Brazil who lives here. She got pregnant with this guy she was in a relationship with ( no marriage ) and she broke it off ... she decided to move across the country as to get away from the grandparents... ultimately she would like to leave France and move back to Brazil with her kid ( who is 5 or so now ) but she is stuck in a legal battle that she can't leave because of the grandparents despite the fact she gets no pension or anything ( she refuses their money or money from the father ). If she leaves to go to Brazil without the grandparents authorizing it she will be pursuable for child kidnapping ... and the kid lives with her and she takes care of him 100%


stupid laws

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Well, that is certainly the current social consensus. Until not so long ago, it was also "life" that women were legally forced to carry children to term.

well you used to be able to legally smack the shit out of your wife, but now mine always calls the cops

1. Woman and man engage in a sexual activity that lead to pregnancy. Child plays no role other than being conceived;
   
2. Woman and man are both responsible for the child;
   
   ...
   
3. Neither the woman, nor the man, have the right to sacrifice someone not responsible for an act the aforementioned woman and men regret having done.
   

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quote:

Originally posted by all-nite-freak penis+vagina=sometimes baby=you have to pay even if its ugly and you don't want it. why?because thats life.

i guess when someone tries to kick you in the balls you don't do anything to block the kick either, "because thats life".

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quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T i guess when someone tries to kick you in the balls you don't do anything to block the kick either, "because thats life".

i like the pain...and don't judge me you put synthetic cock in your ass

quote:

Originally posted by Lira c0re version: if a woman and a man are not planning to have children and the woman gets pregnant and decides not to abort, should the man be forced to pay child support? Yes - and, if the man decided to take care the child, the woman shall pay child support instead.

You believe, then, in holding people responsible for the choices of others?

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Woman and man engage in a sexual activity that lead to pregnancy. Child plays no role other than being conceived; Woman and man are both responsible for the child; ... Neither the woman, nor the man, have the right to sacrifice someone not responsible for the act for something the aforementioned woman and men regret having done.

what's a someone? when does something becomes a someone? what determines when something becomes a someone?

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I think men are obligated to the child and therefore should pay. However, if there is some kind of deception involved that's bullshit...and shouldn't be held responsible.

quote:

Originally posted by jdat rights for visitation etc... but ultimately they want their daughter to get the kids back despite the fact she is totally messed up the law in France is a bit weird. I also happen to know a lady from Brazil who lives here. She got pregnant with this guy she was in a relationship with ( no marriage ) and she broke it off ... she decided to move across the country as to get away from the grandparents... ultimately she would like to leave France and move back to Brazil with her kid ( who is 5 or so now ) but she is stuck in a legal battle that she can't leave because of the grandparents despite the fact she gets no pension or anything ( she refuses their money or money from the father ). If she leaves to go to Brazil without the grandparents authorizing it she will be pursuable for child kidnapping ... and the kid lives with her and she takes care of him 100% stupid laws

thats pretty rediculous. how stupid.

The same logic that justifies forcing the man to pay would also justify forcing the woman to keep the child rather than putting it up for adoption.

["She made the decision to screw, so she gets to support it!"]

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The same logic that justifies forcing the man to pay would also justify forcing the woman to keep the child rather than putting it up for adoption. ["She made the decision to screw, so she gets to support it!"]

if that was addressed to lira, i think it's pretty safe to say he has no problem with that.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Woman and man engage in a sexual activity that lead to pregnancy. Child plays no role other than being conceived; Woman and man are both responsible for the child; ... Neither the woman, nor the man, have the right to sacrifice someone not responsible for an act the aforementioned woman and men regret having done. It's that simple. If the act was not carried out willingly by any of the parties involved, and the local government was unable to protect the violated citizen, then it's the government's responsibility to take care of the child if no one else chooses to do so. c0re version: if a woman and a man are not planning to have children and the woman gets pregnant and decides not to abort, should the man be forced to pay child support? Yes - and, if the man decided to take care the child, the woman shall pay child support instead.

but the problem, and where it gets interesting, is the diference between what happens when the man and woman want different things

if the woman doesn't want the child and the man does, she gets an abortion. no child, and no debts etc

if the man doesn't want the child and the woman does, she has the child and they both have to pay, the woman directly and the man through child support

ugh and it gets reeeally complicated if the woman doesn't believe in abortion
but say she does...

if the man wants it and she doesn't, she can still get an abortion
the power's in her hands in this case. so granted she has to go through an abortion which i'd imagine isn't all fun and games, but gets off without a hitch for the most part

if the woman wants it and the man doesn't, she has the damn baby and the guy's stuck paying child support for the rest of his life.
it sucks either ways, and the negative factors for each decision are inherently different, which makes this all very difficult to evaluate

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