quote:

Originally posted by Orbax this ones easy. No. because abortion should never happen in the first place. The mistake isnt made in saying Yes ill get an abortion. the mistake is made saying Ill have stupid unprotected sex when im not prepared for the consequences kind of stuff.

Dont u think paying the price for having unprotected sex by having a BABY a little extreme if the mother or father is not ready for that responsibility?...yes they made a mistake...but the MAJORITY of abortions are not by the people u know but by women who really fucked up...women dont generally enjoy the procedure.

..also if u think having a baby is a good penalty for having foolish unprotected sex then i also suppose u feel someone who gets AIDS from having unprotected sex also deserves getting it for being dumb..or people who dotn ear seat belts in a car and crash and die deserve it also cus they knew the consequences before they took those dangerous actions?...thats ABSURD

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax Rape thats hard and all I can say is that people shouldnt be rapists lol..

ya and people shouldnt do alot of things..that made nosense

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax but main point is this. The decision to not be safe in sexual practices and the decision to not understand the consequences is/was your choice, live with it. ..

AGAIN so does tat apply to people who get sexually trasmitted diseases also?...so peopel with AIDS should DEAL with it...is that your rationale?

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Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 ya and people shouldnt do alot of things..that made nosense

it was a joke. I said I didnt have an answer.

And yeah I do think a lot of people get aids for being drug users and other stuff. if you look at percentages of people (and disregard sub saharan Africa for several reasons) the majority are in the gay/bi sexual/drug using/prostitute categories. And dont get so worked up about this. Discussions are calm rational conversations where people calmly try to get their point across. Your message sounded Upset and dont be. Im just putting an opinion. If you dont agree im interested in why not. Im more than open to new ideas. Everyone just be cool. As soon as it starts getting to the point where you are attacking eachother instead of the issue, tis wrong we are all TAs here

**and STDs arent abortions. Life is full of situations. im talking about abortion. Im not going to try to apply abortion principles to atomic decay theory either**

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax And yeah I do think a lot of people get aids for being drug users and other stuff. if you look at percentages of people (and disregard sub saharan Africa for several reasons) the majority are in the gay/bi sexual/drug using/prostitute categories.

so that means they desrve to die a horrible death?...being gay is not a crime nor is it bad...i am not gay for the record..LoL...drug addiction is bad i agree but not deserving of death and prostitution is a crime also but not desreving of death...

LoL and i am not mad or upset...this Abortion debate has gotten real heated before...this is nothing...LOL.....i jus responded to what u wrote tahts all....

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Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

Im not going to say AIDS is a punishment exactly. It merely a consequence of poor decisions. Is it bad yeah, do people deserve something horrible and severe? Im not one to judge that. But that should make it even more important to people. For the most part people really do know that yeah this has X chance of happening or this is a usual consequent of this. I know that if I drive drunk I have a good chance of killing someone. But lets say I plan to do it at 2 am when there arent that many people on the road. A cop pulls me over I get a DUI, a MIP, I lose my licence, I go to jail, pay a fine, people dont hire me, I have to go to AA meetings, my life now sucks because of one stupid mistake. these happen to be punishments but they were also consequences. No one died or even got close to being hurt but now my life is messed up? how is that fair? Did I deserve that much agony for a temporary mistake that had no bad side effects? I tried to reduce the chance of something bad happening but I still payed the price (the condom split so to speak). I dont know when I would say "in this case it is the RIGHT thing to do to have an abortion you would be wrong to not have one" are some cases morally permissable? its interesting. Will this issue EVER be resolved? probably not. Even amongst religious people of the same religion there are debates. Here is a dilemma. There is a tank coming at you that is a mile wide and travelling at 200 mph. You CANNOT dodge it. You have a missile that will destroy the tank if you hit it in the right spot. On top of the right spot is a squalling infant. Do you shoot the baby with the missile to save yourself or do you get killed? This was a LONG discussion with the people who have had this question put to them hehe.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax I know that if I drive drunk I have a good chance of killing someone. But lets say I plan to do it at 2 am when there arent that many people on the road. A cop pulls me over I get a DUI, a MIP, I lose my licence, I go to jail, pay a fine, people dont hire me, I have to go to AA meetings, my life now sucks because of one stupid mistake. these happen to be punishments but they were also consequences. No one died or even got close to being hurt but now my life is messed up? how is that fair? Did I deserve that much agony for a temporary mistake that had no bad side effects?

well MOST deaths due to drinking and driving happen between the hours of 12 midnight and 4am...so i dont see how u reduced your risk...and yes u do desreve all that happens to u if u drive drunk because thousands and thousands of people die yearly due to drinking and driving accidents.....and if inforcing strick regulations and sentences for it lowers the chances of u doing it again then its definatley good....and all it takes is one accident to kill someone...u may get lucky 1 night but may not be so lucky the next...i persona;;y think if u get caught driving drunk the first time u get a little jail time the 2nd time more jail time and u lose your drivers license FOREVER...u forfeit your right to drive if u do it more then once...it kills too many innocent people...

___________________
Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

so the moral of your story is live with the consequences of my stupid decision

that was a made up story BTW

hehe... boy oh boy, what did I start!!!!
Well Im glad to see there is a good debate going on in here.
ORBAX.. I see you are a JUNIOR TRANCEADDICT... WELCOME!!! As you may NOT know, TIESTO14 is somewhat of an argumenter!(if that's a word) (which isn't a bad thing by the way!).. and can sometimes come across as if he is being rude, mean, and DIFFICULT!..
I think both of you are making some valid points...
I made this thread for a REASON, and it wasn't to start *fights* even though I think you guys AREN'T fighting, but instead debating.. the point is that this is not what I started this thread for.. it was for OPINIONS that I needed in order to make a choice!.. Luckily, there was no need for me to have to make that choice.. (thank god), but I still say abortion is wrong.. about 70% of me says wrong, and 30% of me says yes depending on the circumstances. It all depends on the person, and the situation I think. blah
I thank you all (TA friends) for your input!

~S~

___________________


Heal the Past :: Live the Present :: Dream the Future

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax so the moral of your story is live with the consequences of my stupid decision that was a made up story BTW

YES u should...and i see what your trying to do...there is a difference between the consequences of drinking and driving and having sex....when u drink and drive you jeopardize the lives of many others because of your poor actions...when u have sex and have an abortion u are jeopardizing only yourself...so inturn since with DWI u run the risk of killing or hgurting other INNOCENT individuals u should face the consequences..unlike abortion which it still remains to be seen that u are hurting anyone but yourself...there is ZERO evidence that a fetus is yet a person....

___________________
Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Waxen hehe... boy oh boy, what did I start!!!! Well Im glad to see there is a good debate going on in here. ORBAX.. I see you are a JUNIOR TRANCEADDICT... WELCOME!!! As you may NOT know, TIESTO14 is somewhat of an argumenter!(if that's a word) (which isn't a bad thing by the way!).. and can sometimes come across as if he is being rude, mean, and DIFFICULT!..

LoL...me an arguementer...LoL.,..NEVER...=)

___________________
Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

this is not a yes or no question...

abortion is a powerful tool that needs to be used but not abused.

___________________
The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.

funny how all of the people saying no are guys...

I am pro-choice. I believe it is up to each person to decide individually what is right for them.

I do not think that we should limit it to only people who have been raped. For instance, say there is a lady who is perfectly capable of raising a child but really doesn't want one, what kind of mom is she going to be? If she doesn't want it that badly I'd rather her give it up then raise a kid she could care less for and won't take care of properly

the easy answer to that is "give it for adoption then"...do you know how expensive it is to be pregnant and be healthy? Not to mention you have to take maternity leave because most women couldn't work right into labour and go back the next day...and maternity leave (at least in canada) is only 60% of your pay.

Plus someone who doesn't want the baby and is just going to give it up because they believe abortion is wrong is more likely to drink/smoke/drugs while they're pregnant because what do they care? as far as they're concerned it's not their kid.

not to mention the fact that an abortion is a really difficult thing for a woman to go through. First it can be terrible physically and in younger girls there is an increased chance of infertility. Plus it is HORRIBLY damaging emotionally...and even if the girl manages to deal with it okay at the time there is a really good chance she'll relapse a few years down the road. It's a decision I would never want to have to be faced with.

that's why I would never pass judgement on someone. You might believe it is wrong but sometimes keeping the kid is more detrimentle (however you spell that) to the kid's safety. Something that is only a couple organisms big isn't a baby to me and if you're going to argue that you're taking it's life away then I sure hope you're not using contraceptives that might harm sperm or a girls eggs because in my opinion it's the same thing and you shouldn't preach about one thing and be okay with the other. However if you whole heartedly believe both are wrong then I won't argue with you because at least you're steadfast in your beliefs and not a hypocrite and even if I disagree I admire that.

___________________
bug_bite
The Head Fashion Whore at
http://www.the-space-lab.com


~~ Music is my Fantasy ~~
.... Dancing is the Dream ....
~~~~~~~/./~~~~~~~~~
Enter the Starlight and Dream with me.

Last edited by bug_bite on May-03-2002 at 05:07

quote:

Originally posted by Waxen But don't you think that it's your problem. I mean.. if you were stupid enough to get pregnant in the first place why should you end your creations life because of a mistake you made? It's just an opinion but I think if your responsible enough to have sex then you should be responsible enough to raise that baby. I think abortion is just a selfish act to cover up a mistake someone made.. you just have to wipe your hands clean like it never happenned and move on with your life.. I think that is somewhat wrong. ~S~

what do you consider stupid enough to get pregnant? I mean, to you is sex only for the act of procreation? because it sure isn't to me. It's an act of of love and also of pleasure. If someone is not using any contraceptives at all, then yes, that's incredibly stupid, but it's easy to get pregnant when you're doing everything right.

For instance, I can not take oral contraceptives or depo provera (the shot), I am also allergic to spermicide and I am too young for a doctor to put an IUD in me. That leaves ONLY condoms. Condoms do break, they do slip, used properly they are 99.999% effective...but there is still that 0.001% that gets pregnant. Are you calling that woman stupid?

I'm guessing going by what you said aobut being stupid enough to get pregnant that you only have sex with someone after discussing and deciding that you want to have a kid with them sometime down the road...?? I sure hope so because otherwise you're being a terrible hypocrite.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax this ones easy. No. because abortion should never happen in the first place. The mistake isnt made in saying Yes ill get an abortion. the mistake is made saying Ill have stupid unprotected sex when im not prepared for the consequences kind of stuff.

same goes for you...you don't have to be having unprotected sex to get pregnant...

___________________
bug_bite
The Head Fashion Whore at
http://www.the-space-lab.com


~~ Music is my Fantasy ~~
.... Dancing is the Dream ....
~~~~~~~/./~~~~~~~~~
Enter the Starlight and Dream with me.