quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Calling vocal trance trance is bad for trance. Call it what it is: euro dance.

Yeah that's what I am sort of reluctant to do. They hardly sound like trance. As I said in my post, I dunno if some of the tracks I listed were "trance". And for all I know, if there are vocals in trance, they are a lot more subtle. Most of the trance out there is instrumental. But back in the day (2002, 2003, 2004) before I came on TA, I thought they were trance but with vocals, but I really didn't consider them "vocal trance". Now I think I do. There's trance with vocals and then there's vocal trance, which is pretty much a name for those listed as trance producers (like Above & Beyond) who produce vocal tracks (as well as instrumental, though more in the past). That's kind of why they are listed as trance, rather than just the generic term "euro-dance", which can apply to a lot of european dance artists/groups.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Mar-25-2007 at 05:02

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Yeah that's what I am sort of reluctant to do. They hardly sound like trance. As I said in my post, I dunno if some of the tracks I listed were "trance". And for all I know, if there are vocals in trance, they are a lot more subtle. Most of the trance out there is instrumental. But back in the day (2002, 2003, 2004) before I came on TA, I thought they were trance but with vocals, but I really didn't consider them "vocal trance".

There is trance with vocals, but they are used more in a 'chant' like style, to aid in bringing you into a trance.

Most 'vocal trance' though relies on verse/chorus/verse structure. THAT is the realm of euro dance.

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quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee There is trance with vocals, but they are used more in a 'chant' like style, to aid in bringing you into a trance. Most 'vocal trance' though relies on verse/chorus/verse structure. THAT is the realm of euro dance.

I know. But I still don't understand the idea about trance literally bringing you into a trance. I mean maybe with goa/psy stuff, that is certainly a major factor in that trance style as well as some stuff in the new age/ambient catagory. I have never taken the term so literally in the non goa/psy stuff, which I know is kind of stupid but that's just me. I hear that all of the time from those who were into the older style (pre 98) but I have never really thought by listening to trance I would be literally put into trance. I had always considered "trance" to be a more melodic style of EDM that had melodic fragments repeated throughout with some breakdowns here and there (which is pretty much progressive trance, which I consider such guys like BT, PvD and Oliver Lieb). And then epic trance being like that, but over-extending the breakdowns to make it sound more "epic" (Armin, Rank 1, Svenson & Gielen/Airscape, Above & Beyond, Ferry Corsten/System F etc) . I just thought of most vocal trance as the epic style with vocals on top, which a lot of it is. I guess it's hard for me to understand this, as I never got that into the chanting, really hypnotic stuff, it was really BT, Paul van Dyk, Oakenfold, Above & Beyond, Thrillseekers and Tiesto that got me into this music. I did like some of the stuff Oakenfold spun in his earlier days, the goa and some of the older style, but he got more into the progressive style eventually...when I really got into him. I was, and still am, a big fan of Tastexperience's "Summersault" and I have no idea if that would be considered true "trance" or what. But that's the sound I like, even more so than epic.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Mar-25-2007 at 05:15

Well, bear in mind the word trance was co-opted to mean a lot of different things at the turn of the century, mainly because it was such a marketable term then. Put 'trance' on your cover, and you'll undoubtedly push more units than something with, say, 'melodic dance hits'.

Same was true for 'techno' at the beginning of the 90s.

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Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Well, bear in mind the word trance was co-opted to mean a lot of different things at the turn of the century, mainly because it was such a marketable term then. Put 'trance' on your cover, and you'll undoubtedly push more units than something with, say, 'melodic dance hits'. Same was true for 'techno' at the beginning of the 90s.

Yeah but the style your talking about, the trance, which I have heard some, sounds more like techno or goa/psy trance than it does progressive and epic, which in some cases, are their own style seperate from goa and psy but with some influences. They might not be as true to the term, but they certaintly have some influences from the early style. Take Cygnus X's "Superstring", Humate's "Love Stimulation (any mix)", or some of Cosmic Baby's stuff. Those are the fore-runners to progressive trance, they are what eventually turned into "progressive trance". They are melodic, and don't not have huge breakdowns. Progressive trance doesn't, but that's then where epic trance comes along and where it becomes less like trance. It's kind of like taking rock music and turning it into post-rock music, the influences are there (and there are some in epic and some vocal stuff) but it gets more and more diluted.

So in that case, progressive trance is more "trance-like" than epic is. So in that case, I agree. But seriously, in the build ups in a lot of epic tracks, there is that typical trance sound that hs been around for ages, but when the breakdowns become so long, it looses it. But as far as the escapist aspect, it still remains in some tracks (like say Midway's "Monkey Forest" or Rapid Eye's "Circa Forever (RE Mix)) dunno if those tracks you would consider "epic trance" but they are kinda of in the middle. I still hear the melodic influences in those tracks that had deferentiated trance from the more repetitive techno type stuff. I just have always liked trance because I did not and continue not to be a fan of techno (some I can stand).

So I've always tried to deferentiate the two (tell people, it's not techno!). And one of the things that kind of bugs me about this continuing debate, is that there are so many artists and DJs that are labeled trance, that if you take trance just to mean really fast, repetitive and rhythmic music, you take out more than half of what has been produced and who DJ the style. And they do have a tendency to blend progressive with epic. There are some who are just epic, but they aren't quite as big or even respected (like George Acosta, he's all epic, anthem after anthem). If you want to continue this discussion, PM me, cause I have to go and I don't want to take up this thread with it, thanks.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Mar-25-2007 at 05:30

no. producers who dont know how to make good vocal tracks are bad for trance

No, as long as they're not cheese.

quote:

Originally posted by Igaryok No, as long as they're not cheese.

I've never heard a single vocal "trance" tune that wasn't cheesy.

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quote:

Originally posted by Project-K I've never heard a single vocal "trance" tune that wasn't cheesy.

BT - Blue Skies (Paul Van Dyk's Blauer Himmel Mix)
BT - Mercury & Solace
Grace - Not Over Yet (BT's Spirit Of Grace Mix)
Sasha - Be As One
Jan Johnston - Flesh


they can be done tastefully

Is tasteful and cheesy mutually exclusive? (serious question)

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quote:

Originally posted by teegee sometimes, i sit on my hand until its numb and then masturbate...i call that a stranger.

good question but i think the answer is yes, for example ''Angelic - Can't Keep Me Silent (Dumonde Mix)'', there are a lot more but i don't feel like listing several pages right now

to answer the original question, nope, vocals are not bad for trance, bad vocals are bad for trance

quote:

Originally posted by Astral7 good question but i think the answer is yes, for example ''Angelic - Can't Keep Me Silent (Dumonde Mix)'', there are a lot more but i don't feel like listing several pages right now

yuck, those vocals were horrid! prime example of an excellent tune ruined by singing imo (the original i mean.. wasn't too much into dumonde's remix)

'stay with me' was even worse, i remember jules playing a dub version once and i fell in love with it despite it being borderline cheese as it was.. but it just sounded tacky with the vocals on it. gutted the dub never got released