quote:

'The people that have the ability to defend others against tyranny and the threat of evil have the responsibility to defend' - John Adams

I love that quote Steve. Here is a similar one.

"Those who have the power to protect, should protect those who cannot protect themselves."

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Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. -William Faulkner

"Life is simple. You make choices and never look back."

st.ed's closed.

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"I think the scientific and the artistic spirit have something in common. The scientist wants not only to learn the facts, but to understand how they cohere, fit together and make a whole. He even uses criteria such as beauty and symmetry to help decide which theory he wants.

The scientist cannot capture the whole cosmos in thought. In his mind he makes a kind of microcosm, which we see as an analogue of the cosmos. In this way we try to get a feeling for the whole. The artist, I suppose, gets a feeling for the whole some other way.”

David Bohm in “Art, Dialogue and the Implicate Order”, published in On Creativity RC (Routledge Classics)

I'm not arguing against CHL's being available. Self defense is a right, and the right to bear arms is constitutionally protected and should remain that way. Like I said, if I perceived a significant need for the availability of deadly force for use in self defense, I'd get one myself. In my situation, I don't feel that need so having a gun for any purpose other than recreation amounts to something at best needless and at worst something potentially harmful. Therefore I personally will not be getting a CHL in the immediate future. I also think that the aquisition of a CHL is a serious decision that should receive proper gravity of consideration from anyone seeking one.

Having a gun on my person isn't going to stop someone from blindsiding me with a blow to the head with a lead pipe, or approaching from behind and threatening me with a knife or their own gun (at which point I would be powerless to stop them from removing my gun). Alertness and preparedness are something I have with me at all times regardless of my weapon.

Obligation to defend others if you're capable...I don't think it's always so clear-cut. Someone like Matthias or even myself, former service members of various sorts, has more responsibility than someone else because our training gives us the capability to be effective without needlessly or stupidly endangering ourselves. People also do have a right to seek their own safety, which is a very important right which is even the basis for being allowed to have a CHL at all. So it's a balance between responsibility to self and to others, with consideration for the situation and your capability.

I imagine few people with CHL's would ever rationally consider using it for anything other than defense. But that's not a guarantee that even the most level headed, cool tempered person will always remain rational, or that someone else would never find a way to exploit the weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by djjonas I only say this as a former law enforcement officer. 'The people that have the ability to defend others against tyranny and the threat of evil have the responsibility to defend' - John Adams

Didn't know this....no wonder you smell like a Pig.....

CHL's are something you really have to asses yourself on. As another pointed out, there is no doubt that some people will be quick to the draw with their personality. But in situations like the VT shootings, had someone been carrying, this situation could have ended a lot sooner and with a lot less lives lost.

I personally don't carry right now. I do shoot competitively, but don't carry at all times. I have been in three situations where I was either shot at or had a gun pointed at me -- once while camping with some friends, a guy drove through the gate on the other side of the property we were on and thought it would be funny to pull out a .22 rifle and start shooting at us from 300 yards away, another in Galveston for Mardi Gras and someone felt the need to stick a gun to the back of my head to impress a girl while I was getting out of a truck, and third in a traffic jam in Houston, a guy was literally bumping cars out of the way and couldn't get past my truck, so he felt the need to get out and point a gun at me.

The straw that started to break the Camel's back was a night where I was followed home in Houston. I lived in Bellaire, was at the movie theater at 59 & Weslyean. I walked out of a movie theater while someone was cruising very slowly by my truck parked on the street--i.e. they were getting ready to break into it. When I got in to drive off, they waited and then U-turned and started to follow me. I noticed, wasn't 100 percent sure, but decided not take my normal route home and begain to drive through residential streets keeping close to 610 in case I needed to hit the gas. The car stayed well back from me, but it begain to be obvious. Well, as I came to a stoplight on Chimney Rock in Bellaire, I was about to take a left and hit 610 and hit the highway to one, get away, and two, lead them away from my house so they didn't know where I lived. Just so happens there were two cops parked in a closed gas station at that light. I immediately ducked into the turn lane and stopped in the light and gave the car one last chance to go by me. They didn't. In fact they stopped in the lane to go straight through the light just in my blind spot behind me. I don't know why, but they didn't decide to get out then. No cars, midnight, they didn't see the cops unless they had x-ray vision to look through my truck.

I immediately floored it into the gas station, pulled up to the cops and told them what was going on. They looked at the car as it floored away toward 610, and you know what they told me. "Next time drive to the police station and pull in there". ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? WHAT THE FUCK?!?!? I told them sorry for interrupting their doughnut break and left.

My point in all of this is that, regardless of who you are, trouble can be just around the corner. Some of you met me this weekend, one, I'm a big guy and can handle myself, and two, I'm not the person that goes looking for trouble. But fact is, it can happen at anytime, and it's better to be prepared and IMO die trying to save a life than to be able to not defend yourself. After seeing this happen yesterday to lots of innocent people, I will be getting my CHL.

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CHL - same theory as a condom.

"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

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Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. -William Faulkner

"Life is simple. You make choices and never look back."

quote:

Originally posted by Progress Ent. Didn't know this....no wonder you smell like a Pig.....

I only wish I was still a cop so I could violate your constitutional rights with pepper spray and a club. You would be amazed how I know how to inflict pain without leaving bruises or any other marks. The academy really knew what they were talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by djjonas I only wish I was still a cop so I could violate your constitutional rights with pepper spray and a club.

Tazers too, gotta use the tazer

Holy fuck, watch the video. And it's just been released today that in 2005, the guy was declared "mentally ill"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18138369/

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