quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Because I wouldn't hesitate to say that given the choice any kid would choose a "rough life" over being aborted. At least I would.

Good point, it never occured to me. LOL, and that's not sarcasm in case my comment needs clarification .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Because I wouldn't hesitate to say that given the choice any kid would choose a "rough life" over being aborted. At least I would.

Completely subjective on your behalf, I wouldn't be so presumptuous to speak for other people, especially as a majority.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono You do have to agree that the man is in a losing situation.

No I don't agree.
If you're talking about losing income to child support then that's about the only thing they stand to lose, aside from that if they aren't hanging around then they can quite happily bounce off to the next relationship without any qualms what so ever.

Ultimately though, contraception devices run about a 2-20% failure rate with correct usage, even higher with incorrect use and there must be some recourse or support for even just the accidents.

The problem is that's not all they can lose. In some cases the man does care enough and does want to take responsibility, but the woman has the sole decision whether or not she carries the baby to term and chooses not to.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Completely subjective on your behalf, I wouldn't be so presumptuous to speak for other people, especially as a majority.

That's complete obfuscation of something I think most of us would agree on. I agree with NeoPhono on this one.

EDIT: That logic is along the line of:

"I think most people wouldn't want to be shot in the face."

"No, that's completely subjective on your behalf."

Well, yes it is subjective but I think it's safe to assume most people don't want to be shot in the face.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Apr-20-2007 at 05:26

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z @ PKC: Who has double standars now? That's kind of like saying "it a mans money so he doesn't have to pay for child support or any type of compensation in case of a divorce" or something along those lines. There's a reason why the term "feminazi" exist and why I became disillusioned with a good deal of second wave feminist BS anti-male propaganda.

no, its like saying that a man, who CHOSE to engage in sexual behaviour and ACCEPT all the risks associated with it, has no right to force a woman to term nor force her to abort. when we are growing babies in vats and theres no human incubator, THEN you can talk about 50-50 rights. as it stands youre shit out of luck.

if a guy is willing to stick his dick in, he should be willing to face any and all consequences.

i think its laughable how you men complain about the supposed "unfair" nature of biology, when its been making women second-class citizens for centuries. get a clue.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, its like saying that a man, who CHOSE to engage in sexual behaviour and ACCEPT all the risks associated with it, has no right to force a woman to term nor force her to abort. when we are growing babies in vats and theres no human incubator, THEN you can talk about 50-50 rights. as it stands youre shit out of luck. if a guy is willing to stick his dick in, he should be willing to face any and all consequences. i think its laughable how you men complain about the supposed "unfair" nature of biology, when its been making women second-class citizens for centuries. get a clue.

LOL, that's not what I said dude. I wasn't talking about "men forcing an abortion or birth." I was pointing out that they have no say whatsoever.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, that's not what I said dude. I wasn't talking about "men forcing an abortion or birth." I was pointing out that they have no say whatsoever.

yeah, and its unfortunate. if anyone has a workable, legislatable alternative, im all ears! sorry to misunderstand. its a busy day in the office, i shouldnt be on here at all!

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BTW, I know this is kind of personal, but I really don't care. My mother was going to abort me until my dad talked her out of it. And I do come from a broken home. And I sure as fuck choose my "rough life" as opposed to none whatesoever. So I can certainly speak for myself, and it isn't subjective in the least Lilith . LOL, the irony .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, and its unfortunate. if anyone has a workable, legislatable alternative, im all ears! sorry to misunderstand. its a busy day in the office, i shouldnt be on here at all!

You need a vacation man .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by WM2 The problem is that's not all they can lose. In some cases the man does care enough and does want to take responsibility, but the woman has the sole decision whether or not she carries the baby to term and chooses not to.

How many men would you know who'd willing have something the size of a golf ball which eventually swells to roughly the size of a bowling ball wedged around their lower intestine for 9months, the obligatory sickness, days off work, inconvenience of fluid retention, stretch marks, weight gain and then... you pass it! (or have it hacked out)

You'd have to be pretty great friends at the very least wouldn't you? If you're not, I doubt there's many takers on the offer from someone you met that just let you stay over for the night once

and foster care can be so much fun...

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith How many men would you know who'd willing have something the size of a golf ball which eventually swells to roughly the size of a bowling ball wedged around their lower intestine for 9months, the obligatory sickness, days off work, inconvenience of fluid retention, stretch marks, weight gain and then... you pass it! (or have it hacked out) You'd have to be pretty great friends at the very least wouldn't you?

LOL

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller