quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous actually, there are health benefits to it.

Until sexual activity starts, this is only true in cultures where people bathe very little or where parents don't clean their infant's / toddler's genitals.

If somebody wants the slightly lower risk of STDs that circumcision offers later on, he could always choose it then.

Actually nowadays alot of reseach is finding that having it cut causes even more illness. Kinda makes sense, that skin is there in the first place for a good reason.

___________________
When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

It would be wrong in our society, it depends what sort of cultural upbringing they have.

Im always ammused how everyone accepts that they are correct in the way they live thier life, and other cultures and religions are commiting these injustices. For example the Amish (sp?) dont drive cars, we do, whos to say that we are right and they arent, until you can prove thier religion is false you dont have a argument, and niether do they.

quote:

Originally posted by Import Im always ammused how everyone accepts that they are correct in the way they live thier life, and other cultures and religions are commiting these injustices. For example the Amish (sp?) dont drive cars, we do, whos to say that we are right and they arent, until you can prove thier religion is false you dont have a argument, and niether do they.

you can't compare a decision not to utilize modern conveniences to poking a needle through an infant's skin repeatedly, leaving him with a mark or design on his body permanently.

and it doesn't matter what cultural upbringing you have. Believe it or not, some cultures involve practices that are just flat-out wrong. You do not have to tolerate everything in every culture. Yes, I know, this brings up the question of, "well, where do you draw the line?" Make up your own mind, and do so logically. If someone dresses differently, fine. If someone abuses another person, not fine. It's the whole overly-PC state of a lot of the world that's wound up having people convinced that if someone else says it's ok, it has to be, and you can't question it. That's nonsense.

___________________

> S u s h i p u n k . P h o t o g r a p h y <

circumcision can be done with numbing agents. from what i know of they do apply these to them but i am not sure of this.

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous you can't compare a decision not to utilize modern conveniences to poking a needle through an infant's skin repeatedly, leaving him with a mark or design on his body permanently.

Ok but what about the choice to have natural births outside a hospital, a practice which can endager the childs life.

quote:

and it doesn't matter what cultural upbringing you have. Believe it or not, some cultures involve practices that are just flat-out wrong. You do not have to tolerate everything in every culture. Yes, I know, this brings up the question of, "well, where do you draw the line?" Make up your own mind, and do so logically. If someone dresses differently, fine. If someone abuses another person, not fine. It's the whole overly-PC state of a lot of the world that's wound up having people convinced that if someone else says it's ok, it has to be, and you can't question it. That's nonsense.

Im glad you recognize the problem at hand, it comes down to drawing the line. And that does depend on the society, yes i think a infant is to young for a tattoo. However without the full situation, instead of a small paragraph on a internet forum, its pretty difficult to analyze the situation. For another example there are the african tribes which use clay disks to stretch thier ears and mouths. Im sure youve seen this as american media loves to showcase it on occasion. Now this is a far more drastic and permenant change, but if they never leave thier village they will never regret it. However if they dont they most likely will never marry, as it is a important part of beauty there, and it will not detract from thier state of life. But if they move (i know its a out there example) into the middle of the US then yes, they have now been permentatly affected (negatively i assume) by thier upbringing. So does this mean its wrong...?

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous and it doesn't matter what cultural upbringing you have. Believe it or not, some cultures involve practices that are just flat-out wrong. You do not have to tolerate everything in every culture. Yes, I know, this brings up the question of, "well, where do you draw the line?" Make up your own mind, and do so logically. If someone dresses differently, fine. If someone abuses another person, not fine. It's the whole overly-PC state of a lot of the world that's wound up having people convinced that if someone else says it's ok, it has to be, and you can't question it. That's nonsense.

Indeed. While it's not right to assume our culture is right and all others are wrong, neither it is to assume something is ok only because some culture says it's ok. I like to keep an open mind and find my own moral values - without imposing them on others, neither letting them impose theirs on myself.

___________________
sempre contra a corrente do jogo

quote:

Originally posted by Import Im glad you recognize the problem at hand, it comes down to drawing the line. And that does depend on the society, yes i think a infant is to young for a tattoo. However without the full situation, instead of a small paragraph on a internet forum, its pretty difficult to analyze the situation. For another example there are the african tribes which use clay disks to stretch thier ears and mouths. Im sure youve seen this as american media loves to showcase it on occasion. Now this is a far more drastic and permenant change, but if they never leave thier village they will never regret it. However if they dont they most likely will never marry, as it is a important part of beauty there, and it will not detract from thier state of life. But if they move (i know its a out there example) into the middle of the US then yes, they have now been permentatly affected (negatively i assume) by thier upbringing. So does this mean its wrong...?

it's pointless to address something like that with somewhat reasonable points on both sides when there are far worse practices to which people take no offense. Start with the murder and rape that are tolerated and we'll work our way on down.

___________________

> S u s h i p u n k . P h o t o g r a p h y <

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee Indeed. While it's not right to assume our culture is right and all others are wrong, neither it is to assume something is ok only because some culture says it's ok. I like to keep an open mind and find my own moral values - without imposing them on others, neither letting them impose theirs on myself.

Even a statement like that, though, is what I'm talking about. The idea of "not imposing [moral values] on others" lends itself to excuses for tolerance of acts which do not deserve anything of the sort.

___________________

> S u s h i p u n k . P h o t o g r a p h y <

Last edited by shaw on Apr-23-2007 at 16:02

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous it's pointless to address something like that with somewhat reasonable points on both sides when there are far worse practices to which people take no offense. Start with the murder and rape that are tolerated and we'll work our way on down.

I think the main problem is the issue of choice by the person undergoing the act. If someone is being raped its assumed its against thier will, and as a society we generally dont support pain force on other against thier will. But acts as a infant cause a problem because i dont personally think the infant has the intelectual capacity yet to make a informed decision. Again back to as you accuratly put it, drawing the line, something very difficult with religous and cultural practices.

And i wouldent mind discussing "the murder and rape that are tolerated" but im not certain of what you are refering to, elaborate and i will gladly continue, it makes my workday more intresting to have a intelegent discussion rather then reading about jennypie getting a new haircut

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous Even a statement like that, though, is what I'm talking about. The idea of "not imposing [moral values] on other" lends itself to excuses for tolerance of acts which do not deserve anything of the sort.

I get what you're saying - that opens the door for things like "oh I personally think random mass murder is wrong, but if your moral values say it's right then do what you want". That obviously isn't my stance on things. On the other hand, by imposing moral values on others you become your own moral god - whatever YOU say is right and whatever others say is only right if YOU find it right. Now imagine all human beings apply the same line of thought, considering everyone has their own opinions on what is right and wrong. You end up with 5 billion dogmatic moral gods - something does not compute. Unless you think there is no universal definitions of "right and wrong". Everything only becomes right or wrong depending on perspective.

Oh man, this shit is deep.

___________________
sempre contra a corrente do jogo