quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Things seemingly exist for some purpose. Think about irreduciable conplexity. The body cannot function if any one vital organ is destroyed. Each is serving a specific purpose that affects the entire system. Systems imply order. And by that notion, if we applied to the entire universe, it is one gigantic system so huge, we can't even comprehend it. The sun is a system, surrounded by a solar system of planets, that each are in themselves systems. The solar system is then a part of milky way galaxy, which is an even larger system. That's why I say the universe has purpose.

It has purpose in itself, i.e. in maintaining itself. It doesn't have to have a broader purpose as proposed by religions.

___________________
Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

quote:

Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

I never mentioned religion.

___________________

Very well, let me rewrite my post. It has a purpose unto itself, not a broader sense as ascribed by us humans, i.e. there is no 'plan', there is no 'unity', or 'greater meaning'.

___________________
Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

quote:

Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

quote:

Originally posted by venomX Very well, let me rewrite my post. It has a purpose unto itself, not a broader sense as ascribed by us humans, i.e. there is no 'plan', there is no 'unity', or 'greater meaning'.

Most of the world would agree to disagree. The simple fact that most people in this world subscribe to some form of religion attests to a universal belief of a greater purpose in this universe.

All I'm saying is that purpose is definately present throughout universe. What that implies is certainly open to interpretation.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Most of the world would agree to disagree. The simple fact that most people in this world subscribe to some form of religion attests to a universal belief of a greater purpose in this universe. All I'm saying is that purpose is definately present throughout universe. What that implies is certainly open to interpretation.

Fair enough. I do personally believe that there is no more purpose in the universe than there is in a any other system. That is, that all its part have been fined tuned by a process of selection to make it highly efficient. That this process is ongoing, and that if disrupted it would adapt in some way. This is in my opinion a more rational explanation of the 'purpose' of systems, the universe included. The only reason we humans ascribe to some greater meaning is because it provides comfort, direction and sense of worth. If we didn't exist, the universe wouldn't implode, suggesting that after all there might not be a 'greater design' that involved us humans.

___________________
Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

quote:

Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Most of the world would agree to disagree. The simple fact that most people in this world subscribe to some form of religion attests to a universal belief of a greater purpose in this universe.

You are making a leap in reasoning based on what you find religion to be about.

Not everyone follows a religion because ot the idea of "things needing a purpose". Many people follow a religion because it is all they have been exposed to, or because it gives them "clear" answers about the world around them.


MrS

___________________
Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel You are making a leap in reasoning based on what you find religion to be about. Not everyone follows a religion because ot the idea of "things needing a purpose". Many people follow a religion because it is all they have been exposed to, or because it gives them "clear" answers about the world around them. MrS

My only premise was that the universe has purpose. You can't deny it.

In my opinion, to have a purpose, is to have been designed. Call me the ID, creationist nutcase, whatever name you want, but sorry if I don't agree that the universe is just some random event in which inter-connected laws of nature exist out of chance.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton My only premise was that the universe has purpose. You can't deny it. In my opinion, to have a purpose, is to have been designed. Call me the ID, creationist nutcase, whatever name you want, but sorry if I don't agree that the universe is just some random event in which inter-connected laws of nature exist out of chance.

What can't I deny, the idea that the universe MUST have a purpose? Or that that was your only premise on your post?

Because I can actually deny both.

I see no reason why the universe has to have a purpose at all. I don't personally see the universe as having to have any purpose other than to be. Which really cannot be considered a purpose.

And your post was not solely trying to say that the universe has a purpose, it was saying that everyone who is religious has to believe that there is a purpose, because that is what every religious person's religion is about : giving a purpose to the universe. I deny that is the reason why ALL people of faith have faith.

MrS

___________________
Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel What can't I deny, the idea that the universe MUST have a purpose? Or that that was your only premise on your post? Because I can actually deny both. I see no reason why the universe has to have a purpose at all. I don't personally see the universe as having to have any purpose other than to be. Which really cannot be considered a purpose. And your post was not solely trying to say that the universe has a purpose, it was saying that everyone who is religious has to believe that there is a purpose, because that is what every religious person's religion is about : giving a purpose to the universe. I deny that is the reason why ALL people of faith have faith. MrS

If something serves a function of some kind, it has a purpose. What are your eyes for if they have no purpose? Oh, I guess they exist just to exist right?

I actually never mentioned religion in any part of my basic arguement, but if we're going to talk about it then ok.

I don't think religion gives the universe a purpose. It already has a purpose. The function religion serves is to find what that purpose is. Now you believe there is no purpose, and that's fine, but I'll agree to disagree on that one. The main difference in our thinking is simply my belief in the inherent purpose of the universe not dictated by religion, but observed by it.

___________________

The purpose of this universe is to evolve and create us so that we can look back and start arguing whether it has a purpose in the first place.

___________________

Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M The purpose of this universe is to evolve and create us so that we can look back and start arguing whether it has a purpose in the first place.

As I said, the purpose is completely open to interpretation, so by all means INTERPRET!! As I stated in my previous post, religion serves as a tool of interpretation to the universal purpose.

The greatest scientists ever known mostly believed in a supreme purpose of the universe. Issac Newton spent his entire life trying to discover what that was, and in the process, he was able to interpret the laws of gravity into a tangible mathematic form.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton If something serves a function of some kind, it has a purpose. What are your eyes for if they have no purpose? Oh, I guess they exist just to exist right? I actually never mentioned religion in any part of my basic arguement, but if we're going to talk about it then ok. I don't think religion gives the universe a purpose. It already has a purpose. The function religion serves is to find what that purpose is. Now you believe there is no purpose, and that's fine, but I'll agree to disagree on that one. The main difference in our thinking is simply my belief in the inherent purpose of the universe not dictated by religion, but observed by it.

For religion to observe the purpose of the universe it would have to be founded on assumptions regarding the functioning of the universe. Close to none of the religions currently flourishing are founded on any of the plausible assumptions explored by science. Therefore, most religions do not observe the purpose of the universe as connected to its actual functioning, but more contemplate on anthropocentric whims established thousands of years ago.

___________________
Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

quote:

Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome