Ableton just has it's colour, I can't explain it it just feels like it does, like any sequencer. The music is going through (hypothesizing a little) different algorithms and codes therefor end result is not the same.


and just as a little background, I use live for everything and still feel that the overallsound quality and waveform editors dont live up to all of what i want.

I hate protools but I still like the sound better on there than ableton.

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quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations Ableton just has it's colour, I can't explain it it just feels like it does, like any sequencer. The music is going through (hypothesizing a little) different algorithms and codes therefor end result is not the same. and just as a little background, I use live for everything and still feel that the overallsound quality and waveform editors dont live up to all of what i want. I hate protools but I still like the sound better on there than ableton.

I don't agree, either. Live 6 is just like any other sequencer. It's what you do with it.

You can claim it has a colour or whatever, then I wonder which way you're using sequencers.

If for most using a sequencer means that you let a piece of software guide you, then I die.

People don't analyse what a sound is made of nowadays, which makes me sad, and I hope you didn't fall into this category. All want the Virus TI, but why? I totally agree that it sounds fantastic right out of the box. It's great browsing presets like eating chips. But once you analyse how all presets are made, you just come to the conclusion you can make those sounds with any other softsynth. It just takes time, that's it.

The thing that killed creativity with synths (hard of soft) nowadays is just this 1000+ presets that get with them all the time.

This is why I'm selling massive, absynth, and this is why I got rid of everything else including a 50 000+ protools rig.

want a 303 riff that sounds like the original? It takes time, but even subtractor with the right programming can do that.

want an instant superosc just as in the jp8000? as simple as layering 4 osc's and macro-controlling them with one single button in fact.

want out of this world kicks?? Nothing but a bunch of layers of the same synth!!

I won't flame sampling and preset stuff further because everyone's using them including myself but honestly, this sequencer thing and the opinion that you have is simply biased by the lack of knowledge of ableton live, don't you think??

That said, if you've tried Logic Pro and like it much better, go mate. Feel comfy when making music, and by comfy I mean, feel there are no rules, or no boundaries on your screen, whether using Logic, Pro Tools, FL Studio, Buzz machines, SC or Max MSP stuff.

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lolo speaks the truth...

hardware is dated and ineffiecent

...all you need is a softsynth and any sequencer to record your ideas(and of course the knowledge)...and you're good to go.

quote:

Originally posted by ASFSE lolo speaks the truth... hardware is dated and ineffiecent ...all you need is a softsynth and any sequencer to record your ideas(and of course the knowledge)...and you're good to go.

for what it's worth, no one holds the truth IMHO ;-)

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Originally posted by echosystm All sequencers are fundamentally the same. If you change over to Logic because Armin van Buuren uses it and you think it's magically going to make your music good, you're basically retarded. It's up to you, but you'll probably feel deep remorse it when you sit down infront of your new Mac and realise that there is nothing important that Logic can do that Ableton can't. Complete waste of money. Also, these days, the PC vs. Mac stability debate is void. If your computing habits are poor enough to require you to limit yourself to such a closed arhitecture, then you will have problems on any system. Am I saying Logic is crap? Definately not! It is a great piece of software, just like Ableton and Cubase. If you were to buy a brand new computer and had the choice between a PC and a Mac, THEN this question would be valid. You would have to choose which you prefer BASED ON YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE AND STANDARDS. However, a sequencer change in lieu of getting a Virus Ti?! Crazy. Let me ask something; of all you wannabe Logic users, how many have actually used it for more than a month?... Yeah... I didn't think so.

^^ What they said.

I love FM synthesis.
and on topic, i wouldnt really spend that money on those stuff, maybe some very good monitor speakers?

if your comfortable with your current setup and have alot of vsts and have releases on labels under your belt, then i think you should have realised by now that any synth can make any sound.
and to finish,

i love FM synthesis.

quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations Ableton just has it's colour, I can't explain it it just feels like it does, like any sequencer. The music is going through (hypothesizing a little) different algorithms and codes therefor end result is not the same.

And it is just that, a feeling.
I can guarantee that you could load a sample in both Ableton and Logic and then do a render,
and finally doing an inverse phase test, and you would find no difference at all.
Sequencers are pretty much transparent until you start to use the EQs and other built in effects.
It's obvious that Logic is going to sound better out of the box, considering it's twice the price of Ableton.
It's all about the bundled effects, not the sequencer itself.

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Originally posted by CReddick Do you guys ever feel like you wish your Virus TI had more firepower? By the time I have 4-5 parts all going.. it starts crapping out internal processor wise... I'm a tad disappointed.

I think Access made a mistake by enabling the Virus to have so many parts. Is there any synth out there that can do more than 4 parts at the same time anyway?
Keep in mind that unison mode eats up polyphony like crazy. For example, play a three note chord, with only Osc 1 enabled, set to hypersaw, with 8x unison.
That's gonna eat up 48 voices. Turn up the release and you're going to hear drop outs when you switch chords.
Not to mention if you add reverb, delay and other effects and you're going to have even less polyphony available, alot of synths don't even have internal effects.
Like the Nord Lead 3, which is (or was) nearly the same price as the Virus TI,
it's pathetic compared to the Virus when you consider its DSP power (Though it is a good synth and it sounds great!).

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch I think Access made a mistake by enabling the Virus to have so many parts. Is there any synth out there that can do more than 4 parts at the same time anyway?

The thing is of course, how many parts do you want to run at the same time? I use six parts at the same time when playing live, and tend not to have any problems.

The Waldorf µQ, comes/came in a 75 version (the Omega); and is 16 parts, (used to have a standard 25 voice one but sold it); but again, that is a "theoretical" voice count, assuming that your are not using effects, arps, 3rd Osc, etc; actual in process usage can be different.

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch Keep in mind that unison mode eats up polyphony like crazy. For example, play a three note chord, with only Osc 1 enabled, set to hypersaw, with 8x unison.

Unison, reverb delay and 3rd osc are generally the killers. Trick is to check the little battery to get an idea of how much dsp power each patch is using, and adjust if required.

Also, the dsp in the Virus is split between odd and even parts; so in multi mode, DSP1 powers parts 1,3,5 etc and DSP2 powers 2,4,6 etc

So sometimes, if you have a very intensive pair of patches, instead of being say:

Part 01 - Lead (very intensive) (DSP1)
Part 02 - Bass (not very intensive) (DSP2)
Part 03 - Pad (very intensive) (DSP1)

Where the bulk of the work is being done by DSP1, as it is taking care of the odd numbered parts.

Try changing the patches to:

Part 01 - Lead (very intensive) (DSP1)
Part 02 - Pad (very intensive) (DSP2)
Part 03 - Bass (not very intensive) (DSP1)

So the labour intensive and dsp hungry patches are being split amongst both DSP's.

quote:

Originally posted by ASFSE lolo speaks the truth... hardware is dated and ineffiecent ...all you need is a softsynth and any sequencer to record your ideas(and of course the knowledge)...and you're good to go.

Nah, the best algorithms will continue to go to hardware synths because all software gets pirated. ALL SOFTWARE.

quote:

quote: Originally posted by Akazi any synth can make any sound.

This just isn't true.

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quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja

This just isn't true. [/QUOTE]

uhm, yeah, your right, i think i didnt meant quite literally.

i mean, a synth without fm modulation, or without formants, or hell even without lfo's, or just a monophonic synth... there are differences, but i guess what i was trying to say is, that one can make a farty electro bass or something along those line on any synth.

i think you know what im rambling on about here.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja Nah, the best algorithms will continue to go to hardware synths because all software gets pirated. ALL SOFTWARE.

Mabey just mabey things are starting to change. With more and more software going with ilok less software is being cracked.

I'm not stating that it cannot be cracked but who is really going to put in the huge amount of time required?

Hopfully if more software sells and companies put money back into r&d then surley that will lead to better products for us all.

And I know weve been saying this for a long time but software really is up there with hardware. Rb2k1 supersaw means my jp8080 is left untoched and V station all but replaces my Ks rack ( though they DO sound diffrent )

Only thing that does not have a software version is my access virus c but for how long?

sorry to hijack the thread.