quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Possibly the most hypocritical and stupid post I've ever seen... The DUTCH guy says the Poles are an "ungrateful people"

Relax pal, I'm Russian. I'm just hiding in the Netherlands, 'cause you know Putin kills everybody who against my motherland. And it just happens that I'm.

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Originally posted by George Smiley The Netherlands was one of two countries who wrecked the Constitution when their own CITIZENS voted against it! (The government, unlike the Polish government, was for the Constitution, but the Dutch citizens rejected it) So I wonder what the Dutch idiot thinks about his own people? Will the Dutch idiot admit that his own people are a "fucking joke"?

Btw, I fully support Dutch people in their views against the European constitution. In the current edition it's crap.

ps.
And btw, Dutch People > British People. I don't know why Brits keep calling the UK a part of Europe. It's clearly not.

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Originally posted by star-traveller Relax pal, I'm Russian. I'm just hiding in the Netherlands, 'cause you know Putin kills everybody who against my motherland. And it just happens that I'm.

In that case, I shall remove the word "Dutch" from the phrase 'Dutch idiot' and the rest of the post will still stand

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Btw, I fully support Dutch people in their views against the European constitution. In the current edition it's crap.

So the Poles are a "fucking joke" for opposing the Constitution, but you also freely admit to opposing the Constitution and that makes you a...?

And what exactly is it about the Constitution you oppose?

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ps. And btw, Dutch People > British People. I don't know why Brits keep calling the UK a part of Europe. It's clearly not.

In what way is it not part of Europe?

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Originally posted by George Smiley And why would that win him support at home? He's trying to justify a position that goes AGAINST what the Poles want - and yes, we are talking about the Constitution (or the amending treaty as it will now be) because this whole thread is about Poland's position on it... You specifically said this is a "political strategy" referring to Poland's position on the Constitution/amending treaty...

You are such a tool. Run a poll in Poland, and I bet most polls would AGREE that Poland's population would have been much greater today if it wasnt for the German invasion in 1939. So there you go. Thats the whole point here. Poland is the agitator. It doesnt matter in this case if they are opposing the Constitutional amendments or whatever, because a normal country would just do that, and dont add any insulting or hurtful and dumb words like Polish Prime Minister did. But you dont ever get it. You support idiotic and pathetic comments of the Poland's government that are aimed to offend German people and their government, and will not make Poland's position any better. So then ask me, why would Poland ever say it? There's only one SENSIBLE reason for that hurtful comment to EVER make any sense - its to win political support at home because Polish people would jump all over it and say HELL YEAH, THATS EXACTLY RIGHT, because in a way, its true, Poland's population would have been higher today but how can politicians be such idiots and openly say it without assessing the consequences? How do the comments apply to the current German leadership? Cant you clue in, Mr Smiley?

EDIT: How many bloody posts do I need to consume to finally get in in your head all this? Or you still ignore my point and your mistake and continue on your rambling? Plllleeeeease .....

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Last edited by Magnetonium on Jun-24-2007 at 23:03

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Originally posted by George Smiley In what way is it not part of Europe?

You are such a silly blind british 'boy'.

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.html?docId=777577

Here is a link on the analysis of the result of EU summit which happened last week. Guess what a pink puddle Tony Blair was arguing about there? Well, you have a reason to feel proud for your nation, 'cause you got it.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] You are such a tool. Run a poll in Poland, and I bet most polls would AGREE that Poland's population would have been much greater today if it wasnt for the German invasion in 1939. So there you go. Thats the whole point here.

No that is not the point at all! This debate has been on the table for over a year now yet you have only heard about it this week because of some stupid comments made by the Polish PM to highlight their concerns. It was a comment blurted out in anger because of the perception in Poland they are being bullied by the other members into giving their voting rights away.

quote:

Poland is the agitator. It doesnt matter in this case if they are opposing the Constitutional amendments or whatever, because a normal country would just do that, and dont add any insulting or hurtful and dumb words like Polish Prime Minister did. But you dont ever get it. You support idiotic and pathetic comments of the Poland's government that are aimed to offend German people and their government, and will not make Poland's position any better. So then ask me, why would Poland ever say it? There's only one SENSIBLE reason for that hurtful comment to EVER make any sense - its to win political support at home because Polish people would jump all over it and say HELL YEAH, THATS EXACTLY RIGHT, because in a way, its true, Poland's population would have been higher today but how can politicians be such idiots and openly say it without assessing the consequences? How do the comments apply to the current German leadership? Cant you clue in, Mr Smiley?

The fact that you state I am "supporting" Poland's position shows how incapable you are of assimilating anything anybody says on here. My very FIRST few words on this thread were "Not tht I agree with Poland's demands". Is that to hard a phrase for you to understand? Yes The PM's comments were offensive but you fail to understand the reason why they were said and there's a very obvious reason for that - Russian nationalism. Nationalism is a very ugly concept and people who do not live in their country of origin (or ethnic origin) can be a hell of a lot more extreme than those that do live there. You hate the Poles and you hate the other former Soviet republics that have had bad relations with Russia of late and that my friend is why you are on here now demonising Poland when you don't even know the full story (that has been around for over a year)

Let me put it this way - if the UN decided that votes on the Security Council were to be decided proportionally by GDP (meaning America would have most votes as the richest, then China, the UK, then France and least votes would go to Russia as poorest) do you not think Russia would kick up a fuss and attempt to block it? They might even be tempted to make offensive remarks as well!

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Originally posted by star-traveller You are such a silly blind british 'boy'. http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.html?docId=777577 Here is a link on the analysis of the result of EU summit which happened last week. Guess what a pink puddle Tony Blair was arguing about there? Well, you have a reason to feel proud for your nation, 'cause you got it.

Why on Earth would I be able to understand Russian?



YOU tell me how YOU have come to the conclusion the UK is not part of Europe...is it geographical? Is it political? Do you even know what the EU is and how it works?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Why on Earth would I be able to understand Russian? YOU tell me how YOU have come to the conclusion the UK is not part of Europe...is it geographical? Is it political? Do you even know what the EU is and how it works?

"Hey, relax fella, you need a rest guy."

ps.
It's written in that article why the UK is not a part of Europe, neither geographically nor politically. You can find same news on any other major news media. Didn't you hear about the EU summit last week?

Last edited by star-traveller on Jun-25-2007 at 09:23

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Originally posted by star-traveller "Hey, relax fella, you need a rest guy." ps. It's written in that article why the UK is not a part of Europe, neither geographically nor politically. You can find same news on any other major news media. Didn't you hear about the EU summit last week?

It was over the weekend actually but yes, I was well aware of it.

But you haven't told me why the UK isn't part of Europe. I'm not interested in what other people have to say about it, I'm asking YOU

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Originally posted by George Smiley No that is not the point at all! This debate has been on the table for over a year now yet you have only heard about it this week because of some stupid comments made by the Polish PM to highlight their concerns. It was a comment blurted out in anger because of the perception in Poland they are being bullied by the other members into giving their voting rights away.

Why the hell were you arguing me then? LOL, you are just one cocky British. I mean, we are on the same page then judging by your response about Poland. You admit that Polish response was inappropriate, just like what I was trying to say. Now you add that Poland was OK for saying what it did because they were talking about it for a long time and now Poland decided this speech will make things all work out fine! Rightttt ....

Poland shoulf just vote no, and not fall to the demands and pressure, thats all. By the way, your own U.K., my Mr. Hypocrite, is following Poland's suit in this case because its population is well, slightly shorter than that of Germany. Britain wants concessions, wants a veto and more power in the reshaped EU. But at least [EDIT]Britain[/EDIT] is not blaming Germany for its lower population, and using smart and appropriate language, and civilized dialogue.

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Yes The PM's comments were offensive but you fail to understand the reason why they were said and there's a very obvious reason for that - Russian nationalism. Nationalism is a very ugly concept and people who do not live in their country of origin (or ethnic origin) can be a hell of a lot more extreme than those that do live there. You hate the Poles and you hate the other former Soviet republics that have had bad relations with Russia of late and that my friend is why you are on here now demonising Poland when you don't even know the full story (that has been around for over a year)

What the hell does Russian nationalism have ANYTHING to do with Poland's Prime Minister's words? I mean, seriously. You dont know me - just because I am on anti-American government line often enough, I dont hate America. I like a lot of things about the States, love a lot of things about their people, culture, music, etc. Same for former Soviet republics, and Poland. I have good Polish friends, one of my good buddies is Polish, named Jarek. I am just plain hard coming down on Poland's current leadership, thats all. Kapish?

In any case, please dont come up with excuses for Poland's words - there's no excuse for how long they talked about a deal / constitution, but in the end, its Poland who burst and is the loser and will gain NOTHING as a result. Still dont get it? You dont say things like what their PM said. You just dont. And excuses are unacceptable, and he is not giving any excuses for his speech anyway. You are jumping on Poland's side and giving them excuse for their hurtful words. Poland cracked.

quote:

Let me put it this way - if the UN decided that votes on the Security Council were to be decided proportionally by GDP (meaning America would have most votes as the richest, then China, the UK, then France and least votes would go to Russia as poorest) do you not think Russia would kick up a fuss and attempt to block it? They might even be tempted to make offensive remarks as well!

Well, if Russia is not crying much and not saying any spiteful or retaliatory words towards other countries like Estonia, Ukraine and USA who are engaged in bitter anti-Russian rhetoric and actions, well, what are the chances Russia will explode like Poland did on Germany? Russian leaders are smarter than that, they dont have their brains in the arse. They use diplomacy, which has little effect though, but we are not desperate. Russia would just block it, like it blocked some other decisions it didnt like in UN, but it didnt come up with a rude, mean and disrespectful story to piss other people off. You are tempted, but they are not.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Last edited by Magnetonium on Jun-25-2007 at 11:16

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Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] Why the hell were you arguing me then? LOL, you are just one cocky British. I mean, we are on the same page then judging by your response about Poland. You admit that Polish response was inappropriate, just like what I was trying to say. Now you add that Poland was OK for saying what it did because they were talking about it for a long time and now Poland decided this speech will make things all work out fine! Rightttt .... Poland shoulf just vote no, and not fall to the demands and pressure, thats all. By the way, your own U.K., my Mr. Hypocrite, is following Poland's suit in this case because its population is well, slightly shorter than that of Germany. Britain wants concessions, wants a veto and more power in the reshaped EU. But at least Poland is not blaming Germany for its lower population, and using smart and appropriate language, and civilized dialogue.

Did you mean to say "UK" in your last sentence instead of "Poland"?

Anyway, you can't call me a hypocrite because of the actions of my government, only if I support those actions (and if by supporting them that would contradict anything I have previously said). For what it's worth, as I have already pointed out, I do not agree with Polands stance (I was merely pointing out to you the real reasons why they were taking this position), neither do I agree with any of the UK's "sticking points" over the Treaty. I supported the Constitution but because it's unlikely to be accepted by the British people (as it was rejected by the French and Dutch) then we've had to "water" it down slightly so that it is just a Treaty, not a Constitution.

The new Treaty will retain most of the Constitution, I think the UK has the issues it wants included/excluded sorted out and Poland has apparently come to an agreement on the voting system where it will be phased in over 7 years (presumably to give them plently of time to fuck the brains out of each other to get the population back up!)

It's a shame the Constitution died as it would have simplified everything, but the Eurosceptics (and their allies in the media) ensured that they played on everyone's prejudices and fears to create a false image of what the EU actually is...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Did you mean to say "UK" in your last sentence instead of "Poland"? Anyway, you can't call me a hypocrite because of the actions of my government, only if I support those actions (and if by supporting them that would contradict anything I have previously said). For what it's worth, as I have already pointed out, I do not agree with Polands stance (I was merely pointing out to you the real reasons why they were taking this position), neither do I agree with any of the UK's "sticking points" over the Treaty. I supported the Constitution but because it's unlikely to be accepted by the British people (as it was rejected by the French and Dutch) then we've had to "water" it down slightly so that it is just a Treaty, not a Constitution. The new Treaty will retain most of the Constitution, I think the UK has the issues it wants included/excluded sorted out and Poland has apparently come to an agreement on the voting system where it will be phased in over 7 years (presumably to give them plently of time to fuck the brains out of each other to get the population back up!) It's a shame the Constitution died as it would have simplified everything, but the Eurosceptics (and their allies in the media) ensured that they played on everyone's prejudices and fears to create a false image of what the EU actually is...

LOL, yes, thanks for pointing own my silly mistype, I am so dead tired (overnights work all summer 10pm-6am), its 8am here now, and I gotta be going to sleep now. I like your response. LOL @ Poland's next 7 years ;-). To tell you the truth, the current make-up of EU is dooming it IMO. It will have to be reshaped. It will not work in its current system for long, some countries' voters have rejected it already, i.e. Netherlands. We'll see for how long EU will last. Poland's going to be excluded, nobody likes them anymore. Neither the Russians, nor the Germans, not even the British ;-) politically speaking, of course, not on individual level.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

The Dutch public, along with the French (and along with the British if they had a referendum) rejected the Constitution. They haven't rejected the Amending Treaty because their governments said they could have a vote on the Constitution, but not on an Amending Treaty! So the Treaty will keep the body of the Constitution, but drop certain elements that are Constitutional (like a flag, an anthem or a Foreign Minister and President). It will allow the EU to function more smoothly with the inclusion of more states (which is what the Constitution was intended for in the first place) and the best thing...the EU population won't get to vote on it (apart from the Irish) so the right-wing Eurosceptics can't brainwash them into wrecking it like they did the Constitution!!