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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Rolling Stone: The Record Industry's Decline
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Cosmic Fur
Debbie Downer



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Mississauga, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by jon jon
After reading that blip about the retail market holding a gun to their head I have a bit more pity for the unfortunate situation that record execs are in.



barely


meh. They can shift the blame around all they want. Music listening was going up, but record sales were going down. Their business model was clearly sinking, and they just hoped it would go away.

Yes, barely, but there's no way I'm going to believe that record companies will close down, billions of ipods will be put away, and we'll all go back to listening to the sounds of the subway. Music will persevere, maybe there'll be no more Britneys making millions, but that's not much of a loss. With the state of Internet where it is right now, I'm confident that I'll be able to find the music I like long after EMI no longer exists.


___________________
I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 19:06  Canada
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infinity HiGH
groovin



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: west side T.O

quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
The record companies failed to address a HUGE paradigm shift, and that's what ruined them. It can and will happen in any business where you try to resist these shifts. The environment they existed in changed, they didn't adapt, pushed away their very own customers, and now they're wondering why no one's responding to their cries of pity?

I personally could care less if all the record companies collapsed. Music existed before them, and music will continue to exist after them.


Hit it right on the mark there. This is actually one of the first things they teach you in any business course, with regards to uncontrollable factors within the business environment.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 19:16  Poland
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

I dont think people here quite understand what a record label does. It essentially provides an upfront RISK FREE loan. Thats right. RISK FREE. That means if the artist fails, the record label pays the expenses at a loss and the artist doesn't pay a cent. If the artist is successful, the artist makes money and so does the label. OOOHHHH big bad labels! Those scalions!

The label pays for everything from mastering, production, distribution, radio promotion, and where necissary, video production. It only asks for repayment when the artist makes money.

Usually artists dont have the means to get a massive loan and doesnt have even the beginnings of an infrastructure in order to support the product.

A songwriter/producer actually told me this last week: "You can have the best song in the world but it's nothing if you don't follow the proper channels in releasing it".

The internet is good for basically one thing. Getting an underground following instead of pleading desperately with labels to get in the door. But guess what always ends up happening when an underground artist (who isnt making ANY money) gets big enough? They sign with a label. Why? Because they need the infrastructure and the resources that they provide.

The failure in this chain is that once signed with a label, they still cant make any money because of people who feel they can justify themselves in stealing music.

The result? Fewer artists are being signed. Fewer artists are producing music. Record companies are merging in an effort to survive meaning LESS COMPETITION not more.

Sure the record labels arent completely guiltless. But no matter what your take on the situation is there is NO JUSTIFICATION in stealing music. ESPECIALLY when tracks can be downloaded for as little as 99 cents.

99 cents! Dear God if my favourite songs were only 99 cents when i was back in university! Cassingles were $4.99, CD single were 6.99, and vinyl was $12.99 per 12 inch. Yet somehow we all found the money back then to pay for music. At 99 cents you really have no excuse to steal music no matter how you feel about record labels.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 19:24  Canada
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infinity HiGH
groovin



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: west side T.O

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
99 cents! Dear God if my favourite songs were only 99 cents when i was back in university! Cassingles were $4.99, CD single were 6.99, and vinyl was $12.99 per 12 inch. Yet somehow we all found the money back then to pay for music. At 99 cents you really have no excuse to steal music no matter how you feel about record labels.


Because it wasn't as easy to steal music back then.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 19:54  Poland
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by infinity HiGH
Because it wasn't as easy to steal music back then.


Whatever the reason there is no justification to stealing it today.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 20:13  Canada
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Cosmic Fur
Debbie Downer



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Mississauga, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
Whatever the reason there is no justification to stealing it today.


Well except for the "Free" part of course.


___________________
I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 20:18  Canada
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LittlePoonzgirl
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by m2j
^^^
i don't get what you're debating here...
its basic ethics that stealing is wrong.

and stealing music is specifically bad for electronic music/'underground' music, because they have so little to begin with.


I'm not talking about stealing at all. People should pay for records or mp3s. The DJs mixes are given away by local for free as promos...no stealing invloved.

My only point was that this article doesn't relate to me. I buy vinyl. It was a selfish point, I admit


___________________
Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 20:56  Canada
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LittlePoonzgirl
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
How??

Every artist is going to set up an internet merchant account, design his own website and spend tonnes of money promoting himself online? It takes label influence to get on sites like itunes and beatport just as it does to get on the shelves at HMV. The labels arent as useless as most people tend to think.



Nope, they just have to find a local store with a good website that is willing to give a little bandwidth to sell their track. It costs the store nothing (other than the digital space) to put up an mp3 for sale. It's no itunes but hey it's something.


___________________
Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

Old Post Jun-25-2007 21:02  Canada
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

Sorry Jay, but you're pretty wide of the mark here.

First of all, the hits have generally not subsidized the lesser-known artists, at least not in recent history. Artists have generally gotten the same royalty rates whether they sold 10 copies or 10 million.

Realistically, fledgling artists have a better chance today because of the multitude of indie labels. The reason all these indie labels exist and are able to keep afloat is because they now have distribution costs on par with the blockbuster labels (i.e. almost zero). 10 years ago, a label could get 10 million CDs pressed for less than a penny each, but rubes like you or I would be paying hundreds of times that much per disc. Now the distribution part is practically free, even for the unwashed masses, and the only expense is in the production and marketing - something that large labels have always been "good" but not "great" at. Most of the record industry was based on that previously-profitable distribution model, which is now hopelessly inefficient; they've officially been outclassed on their core competency.

It's not that people don't want to buy music. And it's not that people expect others to entertain them for free - some may, but that's hardly the point. The problem is that everybody knows the cost equation now. People know what the distribution costs (nothing), and they generally have a good idea what the production costs (very little). The only thing left is the marketing, and people won't tolerate ridiculously high margins to cover the one aspect of the business they hate the most.

One can say that this logic only applies to a commodity product, but music is a commodity product now, and the industry made it that way quite intentionally with its ever-changing top-of-the-pops charts. Of course people have their favourite songs and bands, but that's no different from people preferring, say, a specific kind of computer memory (profit margins in hardware are also razor-thin). Some products/brands are "better" than others (varying by taste of course), but beyond an individual's top 3 or so, everything is interchangeable, especially when there are literally millions of choices. The big three saturated the market because they could, and because no matter which "product" you chose, they still made the same money. Now that saturation is working against them, because they don't exclusively control the distribution.

People will pay for music. iTunes and beatport and so on have proven that. The only thing that has changed is what they will pay, which in practice is just a little bit more than the operating costs, if they know what that is. "All-you-can-eat" flat rates (subscription models) also work, and they're often quite profitable, but the industry botched that horribly by selling crippled music when the public already knew it could get non-crippled versions for free.

To put it another way, people have roughly the same budget for music that they always did, but with broadband connections and plentiful storage space, their appetites (and subsequently, resistance to higher margins) have increased exponentially.

This isn't a moral issue, it's an economic one. Don't blame the market for "stealing". The market has done what the market always does: voted with its collective wallet. People stated several years ago in no uncertain terms what they were willing to pay; Apple took those people at their word, BMG didn't. End of story.


___________________
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Old Post Jun-25-2007 23:57  Canada
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by LittlePoonzgirl
Nope, they just have to find a local store with a good website that is willing to give a little bandwidth to sell their track. It costs the store nothing (other than the digital space) to put up an mp3 for sale. It's no itunes but hey it's something.


So they are supposed to make a living through a local store? Kind of ludicris dont you think? And it seems to me that most "local stores" have been shutting down lately. Why? Downloading of course

Old Post Jun-26-2007 00:45  Canada
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
Sorry Jay, but you're pretty wide of the mark here.

First of all, the hits have generally not subsidized the lesser-known artists, at least not in recent history. Artists have generally gotten the same royalty rates whether they sold 10 copies or 10 million.

Realistically, fledgling artists have a better chance today because of the multitude of indie labels. The reason all these indie labels exist and are able to keep afloat is because they now have distribution costs on par with the blockbuster labels (i.e. almost zero). 10 years ago, a label could get 10 million CDs pressed for less than a penny each, but rubes like you or I would be paying hundreds of times that much per disc. Now the distribution part is practically free, even for the unwashed masses, and the only expense is in the production and marketing - something that large labels have always been "good" but not "great" at. Most of the record industry was based on that previously-profitable distribution model, which is now hopelessly inefficient; they've officially been outclassed on their core competency.

It's not that people don't want to buy music. And it's not that people expect others to entertain them for free - some may, but that's hardly the point. The problem is that everybody knows the cost equation now. People know what the distribution costs (nothing), and they generally have a good idea what the production costs (very little). The only thing left is the marketing, and people won't tolerate ridiculously high margins to cover the one aspect of the business they hate the most.

One can say that this logic only applies to a commodity product, but music is a commodity product now, and the industry made it that way quite intentionally with its ever-changing top-of-the-pops charts. Of course people have their favourite songs and bands, but that's no different from people preferring, say, a specific kind of computer memory (profit margins in hardware are also razor-thin). Some products/brands are "better" than others (varying by taste of course), but beyond an individual's top 3 or so, everything is interchangeable, especially when there are literally millions of choices. The big three saturated the market because they could, and because no matter which "product" you chose, they still made the same money. Now that saturation is working against them, because they don't exclusively control the distribution.

People will pay for music. iTunes and beatport and so on have proven that. The only thing that has changed is what they will pay, which in practice is just a little bit more than the operating costs, if they know what that is. "All-you-can-eat" flat rates (subscription models) also work, and they're often quite profitable, but the industry botched that horribly by selling crippled music when the public already knew it could get non-crippled versions for free.

To put it another way, people have roughly the same budget for music that they always did, but with broadband connections and plentiful storage space, their appetites (and subsequently, resistance to higher margins) have increased exponentially.

This isn't a moral issue, it's an economic one. Don't blame the market for "stealing". The market has done what the market always does: voted with its collective wallet. People stated several years ago in no uncertain terms what they were willing to pay; Apple took those people at their word, BMG didn't. End of story.


ill deal with you when i have some time! LOL

Old Post Jun-26-2007 00:46  Canada
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Rolling Stone: The Record Industry's Decline
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