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| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you want to talk about irrelavent?
SAYS WHO? who ultimately has the right to say who is "rightfully punished"? i'll give you a hint. |
Who? The idiot in the Oval Office? He has no "ultimate" right on who is "rightfully" punished. Having the power to communate or pardon does not give the president any ultimate right. It merely gives him the power to overturn convicted felons. I seem to remember quite a few rants by your Republican bretheren about Clinton's pardons. Again, is your righteous anger of such power only when a Democrat is President?
| quote: | | i don't care about the Donks. no one does but you here. |
You really don't know just how far out on an island you truly are, do you?
Then again, that certain level of dementia is truly the crux of our modern day neoconservatives running the Republican Party and country.
| quote: | | you do not understand. any culpable obstruction would have resulted in further investigation in regards to the violation of the Espionage act, which happened, for years. after which no one was found in violation of any law prior to Libby's trial. not because Libby had prevented that from happening, but because no law was maliciously broken in the first place. |
Again, how does one come to that conclusion given Fitzgerald's statement?:
| quote: | (Libby's lies) ""made impossible an accurate evaluation of the role that Mr. Libby and those with whom he worked played in the disclosure of information regarding Ms. Wilson's CIA employment and about the motivations for their actions."
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...640&forumid=66& |
You cannot twist the wording of that or the rationale of his conviction any other way, sorry.
| quote: | | thats just it. he didn't know there were hard-driven copies because he was caught stealing and destroying multiple hard copies of the same thing thinking that was the end of the copies. don't defend that bastard. |
I'm not up to defending his actions, but I'll play your game and submit that there was no evidence you can obtain of his motive of trying to steal the real documents versus the copies that any trial has come up with, so he stands up to the mere fact that the only thing he stole were copies of docs. And again, that pales in comparison to lying to the FBI and Grand Jury and being convicted on 3 counts. You understand why he was given an "obstruction" of justice charge, right? It's kinda implied in the phrase itself.
| quote: | | i don't know. i just find it telling and odd, some of the misplaced rage around here. |
I think I supported my outrage with Bush by demonstrating his hypocrisy by wanting mandatory minimum sentence laws and being stated not more than a month ago that he would not interfere. PLUS he also circumvented normal DOJ gu idelines on Commutations:
| quote: | Section 1-2.113 Standards for Considering Commutation Petitions
A commutation of sentence reduces the period of incarceration; it does not imply forgiveness of the underlying offense, but simply remits a portion of the punishment. It has no effect upon the underlying conviction and does not necessarily reflect upon the fairness of the sentence originally imposed. Requests for commutation generally are not accepted unless and until a person has begun serving that sentence. Nor are commutation requests generally accepted from persons who are presently challenging their convictions or sentences through appeal or other court proceeding.
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/petitions.htm |
Damn, it's clear he doesn't respect the Legislative. Apparently he doesn't seem to give much of a shit about his own branch either.
| quote: | | i suppose after their job is done after the jurors reach a verdict. duh. |
The jurors didn't have a say on the verdict for this, did they? If I recall, that was up to the judge, wasn't it? If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
| quote: | i was just letting people know how one of the Jurors felt about Waltons sentence.
it's called perspective. life should not be viewed completely from your fever swamp. |
Okay, how about letting us know how the rest of the jurors felt then?
| quote: | | no, but some of the more mentally challenged here that are not familiar with the American Justice System may need a refresher. |
I wouldn't say they're mentally challenged – it's just a lack of knowledge about another country. No biggie.
| quote: | | what you are claiming with what Perino said and has said since is out of context as usual. |
Hmmm, let's take a gander:
| quote: | Q Does the President think at some point it would be appropriate just to speak out about this? The guy has been sentenced. I mean, is he going to run out the clock and wait for all the appeals to be done before the President of the United States speaks about a pretty important matter that was perpetrated by a member of his staff?
MS. PERINO: What I can tell you is how the President reacted today, which is to say that he does feel terrible for them, he thinks they're going through a lot right now, they've been through a lot. But given the fact that the judge has set up a process for appeal and given the way that the President has handled this for the past year or so, he's not going to intervene. |
So it depends on what your definition of "is" is?
| quote: | | thats for Federal level violent crime and narcotic jackass. |
Oh, so the philosophy is somehow inconsistent then, and therefore only applies on the federal level and/or with narcotics? Seems rather consistent in context:
| quote: | WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration is trying to roll back a Supreme Court decision by pushing legislation that would require prison time for nearly all criminals.
The Justice Department is offering the plan as an opening salvo in a larger debate about whether sentences for crack cocaine are unfairly harsh and racially discriminatory.
Republicans are seizing the administration's crackdown, packaged in legislation to combat violent crime, as a campaign issue for 2008.
In a speech June 1 to announce the bill, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales urged Congress to reimpose mandatory minimum prison sentences against federal convicts -- and not let judges consider such penalties "merely a suggestion."
Such an overhaul, in part, "will strengthen our hand in fighting criminals who threaten the safety and security of all Americans," Gonzales said in the speech, delivered three days before the FBI announced a slight national uptick in violent crime during 2006.
Judges, however, were livid over the proposal to limit their power. "This would require one-size-fits-all justice," said US District Judge Paul G. Cassell, chairman of the Criminal Law committee of the Judicial Conference, the judicial branch's policy-making body. |
But IOIYAR, right?
I've recognized this pattern of argument from you for some time now. The petty name calling is almost ineviteable, usually right around the time you make your usual exit. Rather than stoop down to your silly level, I'll allow a mod to make the judgement on your continual violation of Rule #2. I'd hope that despite our differences we finally started moving past those old habits. Guess I was wrong.
Finally, I couldn't agree more with this NYTimes op-ed:
| quote: | Soft on Crime
Published: July 3, 2007
When he was running for president, George W. Bush loved to contrast his law-abiding morality with that of President Clinton, who was charged with perjury and acquitted. For Mr. Bush, the candidate, “politics, after a time of tarnished ideals, can be higher and better.”
Not so for Mr. Bush, the president. Judging from his decision yesterday to commute the 30-month sentence of I. Lewis Libby Jr. — who was charged with perjury and convicted — untarnished ideals are less of a priority than protecting the secrets of his inner circle and mollifying the tiny slice of right-wing Americans left in his political base.
Mr. Libby was convicted of lying to federal agents investigating the leak of the name of a covert C.I.A. operative, Valerie Wilson. Mrs. Wilson’s husband, Joseph Wilson, was asked to investigate a central claim in Mr. Bush’s drive to war with Iraq — whether Iraq tried to purchase uranium from Africa. Mr. Wilson concluded that Iraq had not done that and had the temerity to share those conclusions with the American public.
It seems clear from the record that Vice President Dick Cheney organized a campaign to discredit Mr. Wilson. And Mr. Libby, who was Mr. Cheney’s chief of staff, was willing to lie to protect his boss.
That made Mr. Libby the darling of the right, which demanded that Mr. Bush pardon him. Those same Republicans have been rebelling against Mr. Bush, most recently on immigration reform, while Democrats in Congress have pursued an investigation into whether Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney lied about Iraq’s weapons programs.
All of this put immense pressure on the president to do something before Mr. Libby went to jail. But none of it was justification for the baldly political act of commuting his sentence.
Mr. Bush’s assertion that he respected the verdict but considered the sentence excessive only underscored the way this president is tough on crime when it’s committed by common folk. As governor of Texas, he was infamous for joking about the impending execution of Karla Faye Tucker, a killer who became a born-again Christian on death row. As president, he has repeatedly put himself and those on his team, especially Mr. Cheney, above the law.
Within minutes of the Libby announcement, the same Republican commentators who fulminated when Paris Hilton got a few days knocked off her time in a county lockup were parroting Mr. Bush’s contention that a fine, probation and reputation damage were “harsh punishment” enough for Mr. Libby.
Presidents have the power to grant clemency and pardons. But in this case, Mr. Bush did not sound like a leader making tough decisions about justice. He sounded like a man worried about what a former loyalist might say when actually staring into a prison cell.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/03/o...dpc&oref=slogin |
___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...
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