quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I don't speak Russian, or know where to look for a copy of the law. Can you find it and translates the bits that proves the BBC article wrong please?

I am going to sleep now, because I came from work couple hours ago, but ... basically, this Russian assassination law is the carbon-copy as the law that the British and Americans have for target assassinations abroad for terrorists and criminals. I hope you can understand that. I couldn't find anything in English on this right now, and in Russian it will be just as hard (I dont have Russian keyboard). But its utterly impossible for that law to state that criticizing Russian president is considered terrorism and the person can be executed abroad, that is plain wrong. If its true, then I would like to know. I hope proof can be presented, because I would have heard about it by now (but only a few "hints" are given in Western media about how how liberty ALLEGEDLY the FSB/GRU can have in assassinating ... its just plain wrong to assume). If the law was such straightforward at saying that anti-Putin protesters must be killed, then I would have known this, I read a lot of Russian media of different sources and different political angles.

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And one more reason why Russian police didnt kill Litvinenko: everyone, invluding Berezovsky and Litvinenko claimed that FSB did this. But FSB has no jurisdiction on this, its like blaiming FBI on a car bombing in India - its CIA's job. GRU is the Russian CIA. Its GRU that should be blamed, but its not. Litvinenko should know better. FSB is not involved at all, its not their expertise nor jurisiction. Assassination of the terrorist Yandarbiyev was carried out by GRU agents.

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Altho it has happened in the past, I can assure you it is illegal for the UK to carry out extrajudicial killings...

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Russian media ... different political angles.

Yep, Russia has different political angles in their media alright!

It's just that if they are different from the Government, they often turn up dead...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5416218.stm

Funnily enough, Litvinenko was investigating her murder shortly before his own murder...

Hmmmmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Can someone explain why those dumbasses would use polonium to kill him? Isn't it obvious that super expensive shizzle like that would be traced back to a government? Why not use a .05 bullet and make it look like a robbery? Putin is a silly goose.

Really, it could have been anyone. Any country, that is.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Yep, Russia has different political angles in their media alright! It's just that if they are different from the Government, they often turn up dead... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5416218.stm Funnily enough, Litvinenko was investigating her murder shortly before his own murder... Hmmmmmmm

The truth is ... a lot of people die in Russia every day from contract killings. Today I already read on vesti.ru about 3 killings, 2 on businessman and one on a city mayor. But there are no spotlights on them in the Western media! Ever since Soviet Union collapsed, many military crack units and special troops lost their jobs. So to keep themselves alive they joined and/or created mafia groups, criminal organizations, hitmen units, etc. because of their former military expertise, connections and experience. Russian government no longer needed them for most part. And so the mayhem has begun. How about the shocking murder last year of Andrey Kozlov, the government official who I saw as a bright light to attack on corruption and curb the very corrupt banking system (private system) that took money from so many people and never gave it back. You think the government killed him, too? They cant even protect their own people for Christ's sake, and you think Politkovskaya had adequate protection as well?

Surely a lot of people hated here, the government feared her, but they couldn't touch here because if they did kill her, it would be OBVIOUS who killed her. So someone did it to make it look like the Russian government did it. Its pretty dam obvious. Its really really sad and unfortunate that she had to die, she was a great reporter. But its not perfect in Russia right now, there's still a lot of work to be done in reforming the country and getting rid of all the fucking criminal bastards (like Berezovky), but the killings of such people as Kozlov I think have sent shockwaves that will instill fear into Russian government officials to do little or nothing to curb crime and corruption. Its just sad ...

Read more on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Kozlov

oher sad killings in Russia that shocked me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Listyev

^^ my favourite TV person when I was in Russia ... his killing (under Yeltsin regime) was so senseless... I LOVED his shows. Whole Russia cried ....

An interestinf quote in that above link:

"A 1996 article in Forbes Godfather of the Kremlin by Paul Klebnikov accused Boris Berezovsky of ordering the murder. Berezovsky said the article was a "series of lies" and sued the magazine in Britain. Berezovsky withdrew the libel suit in 2003 following Forbes's statement that there was no evidence that Berezovsky had ordered anyone's murder. Klebnikov, who published a book with the same title in September 2000, was murdered in April 9, 2004.[1]"

"Observers have suggested Klebnikov may have made powerful enemies because he investigated corruption and sought to shed light on Russian business. He wrote Godfather of the Kremlin (Forbes, September 2000), a biography of a Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky. Berezovsky was openly critical of Klebnikov's writings, particularly an article published in Forbes in 1996 about his alleged criminal activities for which he filed a libel suit, and Forbes was forced to retract the allegations. [1]

In 2003 Klebnikov published his second book Conversation with a Barbarian, in which Klebnikov provides the transcipt of his 15 hour conversation with a Chechen crime figure, politician and guerilla commander Khozh-Ahmed Noukhaev, and expresses his views on Islamic and Chechen terrorism.


[edit] Murder and investigations
Klebnikov was shot dead on a Moscow street late at night on July 9, 2004 by unknown assailants. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov


^^^ Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ........

George, do you see now where I am getting at? Russian government killed THEIR own people and THEIR own media support base? Seriously, you read too much anti-Russian media to understand the depth of the situation of problems in Russia. Putin cant just hire 1 million bodyguards and spend billions of dollars to protect everyone ... its not going to work, and its not going to help. There are people who are bent on ruining Putin's success and presidency, people who dont give a fuck about the future of Russia, people who kill others for money, kill for political motivations ... Chechen warlords have been arrested with the murder of Khlebnikov and Politkovskaya ... but thats not good enought for you, eh? They are actually the main suspects, because the stories by the journalists incriminated Chechen resistance and politicians there ... please come to your senses and understand this problem.

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Last edited by Magnetonium on Jul-27-2007 at 22:49

Dude, the Russians are world renowned for killing their own people to squash dissent.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Dude, the Russians are world renowned for killing their own people to squash dissent.

Russian history is filled with violence and terrorism. But some leaders like Putin are trying to change that, trying to wipe out the communist disease, the communist way of things. Yeltsin's freewill allowed oligarchs and mafia to reign over Russia ... at one point it was quoted that as much as 60% of Russia was run by mafia. I've lived there, I know what they're talking about. Putin came around and decided it was long enough. So the "new wave" of dissidents began to flow, claiming that Putin was against democracy, that he was criminal, while they themselves had a history of corruption, murder, manipulation ... how do you think those oligarchs like Berezovsky made their billions in the 1990s? Are you really that naive to believe they all followed laws and bought their stakes in businesses at reasonable prices without bribes and government connections in this? People like Berezovsky, Gusinski, Abramovich went from poor salesmen on the streets to billionaires in just few years from all kinds of dark deals, aided with corrupt government, assassinations, illegal takeovers and corruption. Yeltsin's mafia gang. Plus how do you think Shell managed to get for fire price massive gas fields in Sakhalin? Corruption. Back then you could buy half of the country of you had the money and government connections. I've seen some businesses change hands many times, and some of the businessmen were killed by others.

Putin came around to change that. Fuck all those oligarchs. I know how they made their money, how they became rich billionaires and how the rest of Russia became even poorer while them few prospered ...

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quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Russian history is filled with violence and terrorism. But some leaders like Putin are trying to change that, trying to wipe out the communist disease, the communist way of things. Yeltsin's freewill allowed oligarchs and mafia to reign over Russia ... at one point it was quoted that as much as 60% of Russia was run by mafia. I've lived there, I know what they're talking about. Putin came around and decided it was long enough. So the "new wave" of dissidents began to flow, claiming that Putin was against democracy, that he was criminal, while they themselves had a history of corruption, murder, manipulation ... how do you think those oligarchs like Berezovsky made their billions in the 1990s? Are you really that naive to believe they all followed laws and bought their stakes in businesses at reasonable prices without bribes and government connections in this? People like Berezovsky, Gusinski, Abramovich went from poor salesmen on the streets to billionaires in just few years from all kinds of dark deals, aided with corrupt government, assassinations, illegal takeovers and corruption. Yeltsin's mafia gang. Plus how do you think Shell managed to get for fire price massive gas fields in Sakhalin? Corruption. Back then you could buy half of the country of you had the money and government connections. I've seen some businesses change hands many times, and some of the businessmen were killed by others. Putin came around to change that. Fuck all those oligarchs. I know how they made their money, how they became rich billionaires and how the rest of Russia became even poorer while them few prospered ...

lol, okay. Sure, one political entity is less corrupt than another. I'm glad we're living in this fairy tale.

Tell you what.

Q can be the paid sponsor for the neocons, and you can be the paid sponsor for Putin.

Who needs credibility anyway, when you've got allegiance?

We'll throw the Milgram experiments out the window, just for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail I think the Russians were behind 9/11. The evidence is obvious

Yep. Putin flew them via hologram satelite remote missle control (HSRM)

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby lol, okay. Sure, one political entity is less corrupt than another. I'm glad we're living in this fairy tale. Tell you what. Q can be the paid sponsor for the neocons, and you can be the paid sponsor for Putin. Who needs credibility anyway, when you've got allegiance? We'll throw the Milgram experiments out the window, just for you.

No, under Putin you will no longer be able to go from a street salesman to a billionaire in a few years because the government will not sponsor your terror. The Yeltsin's appalling era is over, because of that bastard we had to leave. Some order is coming back to Russia. Putin is no neocon, he is simply forcing out the criminal elements in the country (and thats perceived in the West as an attack on democracy and return totalitarianism). See the laws Putin have passed ... oh sorry, you wouldn't, because the Western media NEVER talks about the good laws he passed, only the "questionable" laws they like to pick on him. You should look in your own backyard, you'll see your government pass worse laws and do worse things that what Putin's administration did ... surely things are far from perfect, but Putin's done many good things for Russia, economically and politically speaking. He finally started bringing prestige back to Russia. How do you think we won 2014 Olympics bid?

Why is it every time Russia is improving and things are getting better, its perceived so negatively in the West? You guys are really that naive that the Russian people will want to continue living as third world people in their country??? We had enough of the bullshit. Time to reclaim what is rightfully ours ... our resources, our pride, prestige, economy and all the other things that the West can do. And so far there's a wall of double standards hitting back our way.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

The truth is, you guys [the West] NEVER gave a shit about Russia. When Soviet Union was going down, you guys made a lot of promises and tried everything to bring down what took decaded to build. We happily nodded and accepted how you guys allowed our country being destroyed from within ... how your businesses came to our country, seized our resources, made billions, supported and endorsed criminal and corrupt government, ignored the first brutal Chechen War which even I opposed; became friends with many oligarchs and mafia that have seen been deposed and/or exposed for their crimes, put our country in debt by massive loans to mafia and criminal government officials; continued expansion into Eastern Europe militarily via NATO and EU even though Cold War was over; ignored our human right problems and other. And it was all called beautiful democracy, progress in Russia ... mafia was taking over, and everything was peachy. Then Putin came and started rebuilding the country ... and everything became wrong in the West. It turned out that economic progress in Russia is a bad thing. Jailing criminals and murderers is a bad thing. Fighting a new war against terrorists and radicals is a bad thing. Trying to extradite criminal oligarchs is a bad thing. Taking back natural resources because the companies who had them didnt pay taxes damaged the environment didnt give a shit about locals - bad thing. FUCKING everything that was going better in Russia was a bad thing. Suddenly Russia was heading into totalitarianism. Standards of living increased, many businesses propped up ... bad thing.

Fuck the West. You guys know dick shit about Russia. You guys are just hoping that Russia would always stick its tail in its arse and give you everything you want. No, sorry, thats not going to happen. Russia is rich in resources, people, proud history and will eventually get back what is rightfully ours. And no bullshit from the West is going to stop us. Instead of having equal market political relations, you guys are interfering and criticizing our progress ... and what do you expect, us Russians to just give in to your bullshit demands to return to the 1990s? Any Russian will tell you to fuck off. 1990s was one of the worst decades in Russian history. And according to the West, it was the most happiest and democratic decade in Russian history (oh, I know why).

Because of all your ill-treatment of Russia, you will as a result lose potential future great economic and trade deals and strong friends. We will instead be forced (and are doing so) making friends with no-so good countries that we would rather not make friends with (i.e. Iran, China, Sudan). I've lived in Russia, I've seen it. I know what I am talking about.

You guys really think we want to evolve into Chinese-dominated economy? We embraced the West in 1990s, and all got is huge amounts of our capital heading out. You guys came and abused our country, and we were OK even with that. But the happy easy ride is coming to an end ...

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture