quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z For the record, Opus always utterly destroys all the Republicans and Neocons on this board on a fairly regular basis, so this is nothing new to me.

We all don't have the time to be windbags either

No offense Opus

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r We all don't have the time to be windbags either No offense Opus

And we don't all have the time or lack of ethics to support a nonchalant attitude towards the wasteful sacrifice of the lives of my countrymen.

No offense to you 26%ers



Sarcasm aside, I'll be upfront to say that your post rubs me wrong in more ways than one. However I know that your intentions are not malignant or disingenious.

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider And we don't all have the time or lack of ethics to support a nonchalant attitude towards the wasteful sacrifice of the lives of my countrymen.

Exactly. I would add that the utter descruction of a country's infrastructure and it's repercussions leaving the country devestated for decades, and countless Iraqi lives lost is fairly appalling and inexcusible too. I think the bastards responbile for this should be tried in court and punished, but sadly, that's just wishful thinking at this point.

Occ, I have a question for you, and this is me just being plain open and honest. How fucked do you think we are as a country now that we've had all these bills and legislation passed that completely undermine just about everything the constitution stands for? Do you see any of it being rolled back? I have my own thoughts and opinions, but I'm just curious as to what your's are.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r We all don't have the time to be windbags either No offense Opus

None taken. I know you're not trying to be mean, and I don't mind the criticism. Hell I'll be the first to point out my rants can be a wee bit long. However I will address each and every point made as well as I can, length be damned. You also have to keep in mind that certain self-described "experts" in foreign policy like Pollack and O'Hannlon, get to have their own forum of unrestricted length to espouse their views on things. Hell they were featured on so many freakin' news outlets, it wasn't even funny. In contrast, here's a new movie out that's received numerous rave reviews such as the NYTimes:

http://movies.nytimes.com/2007/07/2...=rssnyt&emc=rss

WaPost:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7072700139.html

Time:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/artic...1647716,00.html

New Yorker:
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/criti...ci_cinema_denby

Newsweek:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19886680/site/newsweek/

Entertainment Weekly:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20049558,00.html

LA Weekly:
http://www.laweekly.com/film+tv/fil...-and-awe/16897/

Associated Press:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...t&sn=004&sc=898

just to name a few. The movie, called "No End in Sight" is a pretty critical view of how things got completely bungled in Iraq as a result of the post-war plan (or sincere lack thereof). The critical part that makes the movie so interesting is that there are three players that give credibility to the criticism, and all are very close to Powell:

1. Powell's former chief of staff, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson
2. Powell's former deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage
3. Former U.S. ambassador Barbara Bodine, senior member of the Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance in Iraq

Combine that with Powell's voiced displeasure of the handling of this war and recent criticism of the Surge, this does not bode well for this Administration. Max Blumenthal has a bit more on it:

quote:

Behind the display of bravado, the West Wing is seized with anxiety. Any rustle in the brush, any sudden noise, upsets the president's aides. As they try to regain their composure and confidence, recalling the glory days when they constituted themselves as the White House Iraq Group, or WHIG, a P.R. juggernaut before the invasion, they know who and what they have buried along the way and fear their return. The release of a documentary on the administration's failures in Iraq, "No End in Sight," directed by Charles Ferguson, has the White House spooked. Bush's aides are not worried because the film is brilliantly shot and edited, or because it is compelling, but because of what -- or whose appearance -- it might augur to upset their September rollout. The film features three former administration officials speaking on camera as unreserved critics of prewar and postwar planning: Powell's former chief of staff, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson; Powell's former deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage; and former U.S. ambassador Barbara Bodine, a senior member of the Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance in Iraq, closely aligned with Powell. Wilkerson and Bodine have spoken out before. But Armitage's debut in particular has the White House fuming and fretting that it somehow signals Powell's emergence as a full-throated critic in the middle of the September P.R. offensive. National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley, according to sources close to him, has voiced anger and concern about whether Powell will step forward and what he might say, and other presidential aides are wondering how to cope with that nightmarish possibility. Two months ago, Powell declared the surge a near-certain failure. On June 10, on NBC's "Meet the Press," he declared, "The current strategy to deal with it, called a surge -- the military surge, our part of the surge under General Petraeus -- the only thing it can do is put a heavier lid on this boiling pot of civil war stew ... And so General Petraeus is moving ahead with his part of it, but he's the one who's been saying all along there is no military solution to this problem. The solution has to emerge from the other two legs, the Iraqi political actions and reconciliation, and building up the Iraqi security and police forces. And those two legs are not -- are not going well. That part of strategy is not going well." http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumen...09/iraq_powell/

With that in mind, have any of you seen the director of this movie, Charles Ferguson, making the rounds to any of the media outlets? Has any of the media outlets even asked him to make an appearance, given the sources of his movie, especially in the same glowing light as they have with Pollack and O'Hanlon - the "librul" media darlings from Brookings who have all the "expertise" we all need to know about how swimmingly things are truly going in Iraq?

Uhh, no.

So I think it's worth mentioning such events in detail as well as pointing out the inherent flaws not just in their silly logic, but putting a spotlight on their inane bullshit "librul" background in the process.

Of course that undermines, once again, that whole "darn librul media" argument, but hey, who's counting anymore?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Of course that undermines, once again, that whole "darn librul media" argument, but hey, who's counting anymore?

It's pretty obvious at this point that every side is getting pretty tired; 'librul' media aside.
I'm not a huge fan of any media truth-be-told.

I do applaud you on your zeal MisterOpus1, it's just too bad just about every post is an essay!
But, better to be concise than ambiguous I suppose.

not that we ever had any questions regarding your loyalties at this point...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r not that we ever had any questions regarding your loyalties at this point...

nor do any of us have similar questions regarding yours.....

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 nor do any of us have similar questions regarding yours.....

Just remember, I didn't vote for the guy nor could I

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Anything america is involved in, progress does not exist. Includeing the country itself.

___________________
i'm the alchemist without the cyst without a doubt out of the mist
dig out the grout expose the pest to take it out without the rest

they will attest my patients restorations from the best

i'm from the west i'm not an acmeist only the alchemist