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Originally posted by Beat Blog Perhaps for the same reason that people continue to make formulaic threads about how shit trance is these days?

But I don't think that trance is shit. There's still good trance coming from places. I'm just wondering why this particular "formula" is so popular, and why some producers, with all the millions of timbres and song structures possible to them as a result of modern software, hammer out what seems like essentially the same track with different notes. I don't even see how that can be gratifying for somebody who wants to consider himself creative and at least somewhat original, as most artists do. But still the same formula gets followed again and again and again and again and again and again...

I wasn't from my previous post saying that the formula is good, merely that their is an "established" formula for epic trance music and most producers who produce epic trance follow that formula. I think it is still possible to make good epic trance without following the formula to a tee (very predictable sounding tracks). I think Micro de Govia makes good epic trance and does use breakdowns, but it's the way he uses them and their implementation which makes them different. I don't think eliminating breakdowns is necessarily something that would automatically make something less formulaic.

Epic trance, and trance music period (most) is going to have some type of breakdown. I think there was some good trance that has potential, but lately it's been droned out by amateur producers and sameness. So I don't think it's so much the build up, breakdown formula which is bad, it's the repetitive sounds used. It's also what was mentioned by Cobalt, that they had inspiration, catchiness, tracks that stood out. You don't have that as much nowadays. Very few "stand out" tracks IMO.

I don't know if you would consider it trance, but Probspot's "Foreplay" was excellent, and it really didn't sound like all the other trance out there. Same with Leama & Moore's music.

Whatever sounds good to me, thats all that matters. If it comes from a formula, so be it.

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Originally posted by Magnus Whatever sounds good to me, thats all that matters. If it comes from a formula, so be it.

+2

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Epic trance, and trance music period (most) is going to have some type of breakdown. I think there was some good trance that has potential, but lately it's been droned out by amateur producers and sameness. So I don't think it's so much the build up, breakdown formula which is bad, it's the repetitive sounds used. It's also what was mentioned by Cobalt, that they had inspiration, catchiness, tracks that stood out. You don't have that as much nowadays. Very few "stand out" tracks IMO.

When you start changing around how the track sounds, it starts becoming a different genre...

Then people complain about the bastardization of one genre being overtaken by another...

People will always bitch. There will always be newbs and always be so-called "elitists". Who cares?

Examples of Trance with the formula but IMO are good:

Rapid Eye - Circa Forever (R.E. Mix), Santa Cruz (R.E. Mix)
Alibi - Eternity (Thrillseekers New Horizon Mix)
Free Radical - Surreal (En Motion Mix)
Micro de Govia - Vital Spark, Epic Monolith, Aura Indigo
Solar Stone - Seven Cities, Solar Coaster, Eastern Sea, 3rd Earth
Matt Hardwick vs. Smith & Pledger - Day One (Above & Beyond's Big Room Mix)
Tranquility Base - Razorfish (Above & Beyond's Progressive Mix)
Aalto - Rush (Super8 vs. Orkidea Remix), Taurine (Super8 Remix)

Don't see what's wrong with any of these tracks...

Last edited by Spirit5 on Aug-03-2007 at 19:56

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Originally posted by david.michael When you start changing around how the track sounds, it starts becoming a different genre... Then people complain about the bastardization of one genre being overtaken by another... People will always bitch. There will always be newbs and always be so-called "elitists". Who cares?

Not really. The sound can change but the genre wouldn't. If you change say the way a breakdown sounds, the instruments being used and the elements in the track...it can still remain in the established sub-genre. What I mean by sounds is instruments. Say adding a guitar in a breakdown, which has already been done in both house and trance, replacing the saw-wave or supersaw sound or the synth-strings/soft pad type sound and replacing it with something else. Also change the way a breakdown is arranged, and even borrowing some elements from other genres..like breaks. BT did it back in the day. Genres overlap all the time, but that doesn't mean it's become a new genre. It's when those elements take over the track that it becomes something new.

quote:

Whatever sounds good to me, thats all that matters. If it comes from a formula, so be it.

This is like the steak in the first matrix movie. Smith and Cypher meat in a steakhouse in the matrix.

"
Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?
[Takes a bite of steak]
Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.
"


in other words, I feel that people refuse to accept that what they are listening to really isn't that good or interesting because they are comfortable trapped behind the thin veil of happiness and nostalgia for music that made them feel special and 'different' from 'normal' people. I personally question EVERYTHING I listen to. I see these trance sets here on TA for download and every tracklist shares like 6 tracks from the 3 years ago. I buy my share of classics but come on - how can you ever stop searching for something you like even more? Because that's what it is for me. Every time I find something different that I like I feel like I have discovered another part of myself.

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When you start changing around how the track sounds, it starts becoming a different genre...

Most people who study genre will tell you that's when originality begins. Genre games are a common genesis of original and interesting artwork.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Not really. The sound can change but the genre wouldn't. If you change say the way a breakdown sounds, the instruments being used and the elements in the track...it can still remain in the established sub-genre. What I mean by sounds is instruments. Say adding a guitar in a breakdown, which has already been done in both house and trance, replacing the saw-wave or supersaw sound or the synth-strings/soft pad type sound and replacing it with something else. Also change the way a breakdown is arranged, and even borrowing some elements from other genres..like breaks. BT did it back in the day. Genres overlap all the time, but that doesn't mean it's become a new genre. It's when those elements take over the track that it becomes something new.

But my point is, this happens, and people still complain.

People started adding buzzy basslines to trance, so-called "electro"-trance was born, and people bitched.

People started adding guitar to trance tracks, people called it fluffy and bitched.

People started using chopped vocals for melodies, everyone said "god I'm getting tired of this Andy Moor sound" and bitched.

People started slowing their tracks down and making them housier... progressive house was born (so it's no longer "trance"), and vice versa.

Change the rhythm of the kick drum, now it's called "breaks".

People aren't happy with the genre, so they change it to something else...then they complain that there isn't any good music in their genre, when what they need to do is just admit that they don't care for their genre anymore.

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Originally posted by nefardec in other words, I feel that people refuse to accept that what they are listening to really isn't that good or interesting because they are comfortable trapped behind the thin veil of happiness and nostalgia for music that made them feel special and 'different' from 'normal' people.

I want to quote that in particular. What's interesting about this attitude is it's YOUR opinion that you think people's music isn't good so they think it isn't good. What is good and isn't good is SUBJECTIVE. People do grow out of said genre, but that doesn't mean it "sucks" or just isn't good. As I said previously on here, you can grow out of said genre but still appreciate it and listen to it, but that doesn't mean you should turn your back on it and be like "it sucks, I listened to that when I was 16". I think it's possible to like stuff you enjoyed in the past, and still move on from it..explore different things. Just because someone still likes trance, doesn't mean they aren't open to other genres of music. I'm 22, I've liked trance since I was like 14 or 15. Do you think I'm closed minded to other music? Most CDs i've bought in the past two years have not been trance and I hardly download trance on Beatport anymore, just some older stuff I liked.

I liked Transformers when I was a kid, I saw the movie recently and I still enjoyed it. It's almost the same with trance, although I still listen to it (I can't say I play with Transformers toys anymore).

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Originally posted by nefardec Most people who study genre will tell you that's when originality begins. Genre games are a common genesis of original and interesting artwork.

I agree... see my above post for elaboration.

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Originally posted by david.michael People aren't happy with the genre, so they change it to something else...then they complain that there isn't any good music in their genre, when what they need to do is just admit that they don't care for their genre anymore.

And that's my point as well. People like MrJiveBoJingles refuses to admit he just doesn't like epic trance, so he complains about Static Blue's music. It's the same with other people.