quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter It meens the music is very anti chorusey... there are no progressive songs with a chorus.

Same goes for a lot of techno, house and also other EDM genres.

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"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No, that's bullshit. A common misconception. Progressive in music means "it furthers the sounds of the genre". It's music that claims to be forward-thinking. In dance music, "progressive" was coined to describe the music of Leftfield, which was called progressive house because it broke away from contemporary house sounds. Leftfield implemented strong elements of dub and African music into their music, as well as punk, which was new and exciting at the time. Progressive house was originally house music that used new sounds or sounds from other genres. Progressive trance followed, because it was a new type of trance distinct from the classic German sound. It had more cutting-edge production, more melodic influence and a different sound. It actually took a lot from progressive house, with artists like BT making progressive house that sounded more and more like trance. Now, the use of "progressive" just means that the style claims to be forward-thinking within its genre. Note that the word comes from progressive rock in the 70s, which was all about taking rock music to new levels of production and musical complexity.

I disagree with that.

I think that yes, originally, the term "progressive" was used to describe cutting edge music, especially the darker and breaksier sounds like nefardec was talking about.

However, these days I take it (and I'm not alone) as someone earlier said: a song which builds elements more subtly and has less obvious builds than that of other dance music, with less emphasis on choruses, and more emphasis on building atmosphere and feeling. A perfect example of this is Laurent Garnier's Acid Eiffel or The Man With The Red Face, which both have subtle element additions and no discernible breaks or builds.

On the other hand, Justice vs Simian - Never Be Alone is about as far from progressive as you can get. Obvious breaks, no subtlety.

To a degree, yes, all dance music is progressive, it's just that the genre known as "progressive" is even more so.

The term "progressive" relates to structure, not sound, as the words "house" or "trance" do, hence why basically any genre can have the word "progressive" whacked on the front, and take on it's own identity as a valid genre.

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i am really confused here. i always did think of progressive meaning that it objectively referred to the song's composition, as in having more layers slowly being taken away, and is unlikely to have an outstanding chorus, as darkarbiter said. however, this only makes sense in juxtaposition to music that has quick drastic changes in its form such as epic trance.

if we were to go with this objective definition then it would be redundant to call techno etc. progressive, since it's always had that type of build-up in its songs, just like you wouldn't want to label something as 'vocal gospel'

it seems to me like beatport follows the objective approach to the word as most of the songs under progressive house are ones that have melodies that span more than a few bars, have a more euphoric feeling and extra layers... am i wrong?

and as for progressive trance, it has always seemed to me as typically being slower with a swelling bassline, and not having an ear piercing arpeggiated lead... markus schulz tracks come to mind. it seems that the majority accept his stuff as prog trance for describing its composition compared to chorusey trance... someone want to offer me the 'progressive as forward-thinking' definition of prog trance?

can someone who shares the subjective definition of progressive (forward-thinking, adding more to the genre, all that crap) do me a favor and give me some examples of newer trance and house songs (that i can find on beatport) that you would call progressive, and a few that you definitely wouldn't?

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quote:

Originally posted by DaRoZa i am really confused here. i always did think of progressive meaning that it objectively referred to the song's composition, as in having more layers slowly being taken away, and is unlikely to have an outstanding chorus, as darkarbiter said. however, this only makes sense in juxtaposition to music that has quick drastic changes in its form such as epic trance. if we were to go with this objective definition then it would be redundant to call techno etc. progressive, since it's always had that type of build-up in its songs, just like you wouldn't want to label something as 'vocal gospel' it seems to me like beatport follows the objective approach to the word as most of the songs under progressive house are ones that have melodies that span more than a few bars, have a more euphoric feeling and extra layers... am i wrong? and as for progressive trance, it has always seemed to me as typically being slower with a swelling bassline, and not having an ear piercing arpeggiated lead... someone want to offer me the 'progressive as forward-thinking' definition of prog trance? can someone who shares the subjective definition of progressive (forward-thinking, adding more to the genre, all that crap) do me a favor and give me some examples of newer trance and house songs (that i can find on beatport) that you would call progressive, and a few that you definitely wouldn't?

I agree with everything you just said.

re: techno always having been progressive

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated To a degree, yes, all dance music is progressive, it's just that the genre known as "progressive" is even more so.

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Mix archive | Melbourne club guide

early John Digweed is pure progressive house

"progressive" + [genre] = usually means a more (more than pure [genre]) moody deeeeep bass, complex percussions, loads of reverb and fx, less catchy melody, long transitions, small hardly-noticed changes in percussion and structure throughout the track. progressive, to me personally, is more relevant to feeling a state of trance due to the repeatance and monotony of the progressive sound(which is a good thing)

IMHO examples:

Native Toungue - High (Original Mix) - pure progressive house

Leama - Melodica (Humate Remix) - pure progressive trance (FUCKING LOVE IT!!!!)

quote:

Originally posted by DaRoZa can someone who shares the subjective definition of progressive (forward-thinking, adding more to the genre, all that crap) do me a favor and give me some examples of newer trance and house songs (that i can find on beatport) that you would call progressive, and a few that you definitely wouldn't?

The thing is, that the word 'progressive' became a buzzword and as people used it, they disinterpreted the meaning. What was once a word that was meant to describe a true musical progression in f.e. Leftfield's music, has become a term that is linked to derivative shit, such as Schulz's McProg.

The question is: Should we refer to 'progressive' in connection with it's original meaning or with what it signifies now, after years of inaccurate use? I'm content with the former.

Also, that reminds me; I´m currently reading a book by Malcolm Gladwell called 'Blink' and there are some really interesting thoughts about how does our brain work on an unconscious level and how does that collide with voicing our thoughts or describing things we saw/heard. For example, if I told you to picture Marilyn Monroe's face, you'd probably have it in a second. If I told you to desribe it then, though, you'd have to use words to do it and just from them, almost noone could tell whose face it was.

The same thing happens in music when we try to give it names or describe it; the fundamental resemblance gets lost in a translation. That's why we should at least try to find out what was the word originally supposed to mean, and more importantly, how sounded the music that got tagged like that. Or perhaps, we shouldn't even try to pigeonhole music when the result is nothing but confusion.

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"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."

Some people here are doing way too much of this "ignoring" thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I love people who write off entire genres in one sweeping sentence.

I do it all the time, so does probably almost anyone else.

Sure there's probably the occasional hardcore rock, or gabber, or house, or country, or whatever song that I might not mind, but as a rule the defining elements of those genres don't appeal to me, so I just leave it at that and don't bother with it.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec So.... basically, you're saying nearly 98% all music is 'progressive music'. Did you come up with this on your own? Did someone tell you this? Where did this notion come from? IF you really want to know I suggest asking people who have been buying records since the mid 90s, record store owners, important deejays. Find out where these labels were first used to describe or market the music. Don't just sit there and speculate and post rationalize..

read what i posted right above ur post.
would hve saved u some time.

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quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog I disagree with that. I think that yes, originally, the term "progressive" was used to describe cutting edge music, especially the darker and breaksier sounds like nefardec was talking about. However, these days I take it (and I'm not alone) as someone earlier said: a song which builds elements more subtly and has less obvious builds than that of other dance music, with less emphasis on choruses, and more emphasis on building atmosphere and feeling. A perfect example of this is Laurent Garnier's Acid Eiffel or The Man With The Red Face, which both have subtle element additions and no discernible breaks or builds.

Who gives a fuck what it's taken as these days? These days "trance" is taken as something with a huge hook introduced in a breakdown, "electro" is anything with beepy sounds and a buzzing bassline and "minimal" is anything that sounds like a cicada symphony.

This "progressive structure" idea is completely irrelevant. If any track that progressively added layers were progressive, then a huge amount of dance music would have to be progressive, which it clearly isn't. Furthermore, the track which "progressive" was introduced into the dance music lexicon to describe (Leftfield's Song of Life) completely disobeys the structure, doing what early Leftfield tracks did and passing through distinct stages with different musical elements for each one.

quote:

The term "progressive" relates to structure, not sound, as the words "house" or "trance" do, hence why basically any genre can have the word "progressive" whacked on the front, and take on it's own identity as a valid genre.

Who says it does? Do genre prefixes like "acid" or "psy" relate to structure? Of course not. Who has even defined "progressive" as meaning "steady introduction of elements with breaks or builds"? There's absolutely no fixed definition of progressive with regards to musical structure. The one you hear most often is stuff relating to "taking you on a journey" or "starts somewhere and ends somewhere else", but these are incredibly vague ideas that can be applied to a huge volume of music.

So instead of trying to fuck around with unhelpful and inaccurate descriptions of structure, I'm sticking with what "progressive" actually meant when it was coined, and what still best describes all progressive music.

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Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No, that's bullshit. A common misconception. Progressive in music means "it furthers the sounds of the genre". It's music that claims to be forward-thinking. In dance music, "progressive" was coined to describe the music of Leftfield, which was called progressive house because it broke away from contemporary house sounds. Leftfield implemented strong elements of dub and African music into their music, as well as punk, which was new and exciting at the time. Progressive house was originally house music that used new sounds or sounds from other genres. Progressive trance followed, because it was a new type of trance distinct from the classic German sound. It had more cutting-edge production, more melodic influence and a different sound. It actually took a lot from progressive house, with artists like BT making progressive house that sounded more and more like trance. Now, the use of "progressive" just means that the style claims to be forward-thinking within its genre. Note that the word comes from progressive rock in the 70s, which was all about taking rock music to new levels of production and musical complexity.

Yay!

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J These days..."minimal" is anything that sounds like a cicada symphony.