quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley All in all, it gives us plenty of scope to address the situation, without having to resort to deporting every Mulsim we can find from this country as no doubt the readers of the Times, the Daily Mail, LazFX, Firestarter, Lillith (who will no doubt be reading this thread even tho she claims to have "quit"!) would quite like to do!

It's painfully obvious you've never spent time in Toronto or you'd rethink your words...

(or just know what you're talking about...)

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley that you've made a bit of a habit in the past of labelling the majority of Muslims as Jihadis instead of acknowledging it is in fact a minority...

Look, I know that the majority of Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Hindus and so forth want the very same that I want. To live in happiness, raise kids and overall; live in peace.
Its the radicals that needs to be stopped.
I really don't care about missionaries, preaching on the street and going door to door (the M.O. of most christian sects) as long as they do not impede on others rights. But this group of Muslims preaches hate and a non-tolerant and very violent view of non-believers.
What gets me is these radicals have no appreciation of their host country's values. They stay segregated from all others..... so whats the point of moving?? It seems that the UK is going to have a lot of issues with this in the near future....
It is occurring here in the states, but I honestly think that the Muslim community here in the states is a little more stand offish about these types....

quote:

Mayor Bloomberg's personal security detail was temporarily increased in recent weeks, and security officials were tracking the source of a possible threat against his life made by an American-born New Yorker and Muslim convert named Edwin Thomas. According to WNBC, intelligence officers kept tabs on the man for weeks, finding out that he had a history of mental illness and concluding that he was not capable of following through on his threats. Police first learned of Thomas when they heard from the Al Farooq mosque on Atlantic Ave. in Brooklyn, which the Daily News reports gained a reputation for radicalism in the 1990s and following 2001. Thomas prays at the mosque frequently and began to solicit help from other members to carry out his idea of killing Mayor Bloomberg. Members of the mosque characterized him as a nut and notified the police of Thomas' nascent plans. Twenty-eight-year-old mosque member Mohamed Houras said Al Farooq is frequently a destination for such people: "They come in all the time. These guys go to jail, convert and then show up at the mosque with plots. They talk jihad, but they're out of their minds. Of course we call cops."

SOURCE

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Look, I know that the majority of Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Hindus and so forth want the very same that I want. To live in happiness, raise kids and overall; live in peace.

And good house! Well... this one does!

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r It's painfully obvious you've never spent time in Toronto or you'd rethink your words... (or just know what you're talking about...)

Well considering the fact we're discussing the British Muslim community I'm not sure what revelvance me never having been to Toronto has?

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Its the radicals that needs to be stopped

Laz, I have never had a problem with you or anyone else criticising radical al-Qaida types in the UK or anywhere else. There IS a problem and it needs addressing and discussing. What I have had a problem with is how you (and others) have created, either accidentally or deliberately, the impression this problem is characteristic of the wider Muslim community when it isn't. Of course, there are actions the Muslim community as a whole could take, but at the end of the day, we have no right to force them to do something the "native" white population is not expected to do.

I have two problems with the impression this issue concerns the entire Muslim community - one, it diverts from what is the real debate, and therefore the real solution, and two, it prevents these radicals from integrating in British society, when they see that society label them as "the enemy".

quote:

I really don't care about missionaries, preaching on the street and going door to door (the M.O. of most christian sects) as long as they do not impede on others rights. But this group of Muslims preaches hate and a non-tolerant and very violent view of non-believers.

My post about the missionaries was a joke (albeit a true joke!)

quote:

What gets me is these radicals have no appreciation of their host country's values. They stay segregated from all others..... so whats the point of moving?? It seems that the UK is going to have a lot of issues with this in the near future.... It is occurring here in the states, but I honestly think that the Muslim community here in the states is a little more stand offish about these types....

The mistake you make is assuming that British citizens are white Christians. Following Indian independence in the 40s, a large influx of immigrants arrived to the UK - Muslims, Hindis, Sheiks, etc etc. Those immigrants are now the 'Grandparent generation' - their children and grandchildren are British-born citizens, just like me. So you can't say "host country's values" because there is no "host" country, just "their own" country.

There is a theory that states 30 years after the influx of large numbers of immigrant communities, trouble flairs up, because the youth of that community become diseffected, have an crisis of identity. They don't quite feel connected to the traditions of their parents or grandparents, but also feel excluded from the culture of the country they live in. They crave their own identity and this has lead to the exploitation by Jihadis.

So to ask "what's the point of moving" does not apply to the problem the UK is facing because "they" are already here by birth-right.

The problem we need to address is two-fold - from the Muslim community, to ensure their youth are not constrained by foreign traditions (such as forced marriages to ugly cousins, sermons read in English as well as Arabic and no restrictions on who can make the sermons), and from the government, by ensuring the Muslims are made to feel like part of this country and not cast aside as potential terrorists. A more ethical (ie NOT American) foreign policy - the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq - will go a long way to addressing their concerns as well.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Look, I know that the majority of Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Hindus and so forth want the very same.

No, its not the same that everyone wants. Christians want you to convert. Only Christians want others to convert to their religion. Hindus, Muslims, Buddists simply dont do it, they never ask anyone to convert anywhere.. look at history. Only Christians have that system and do that in a systematic way.

I dont know about jews but I dont think they do it too.

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Originally posted by Purple No, its not the same that everyone wants. Christians want you to convert. Only Christians want others to convert to their religion. Hindus, Muslims, Buddists simply dont do it, they never ask anyone to convert anywhere.. look at history. Only Christians have that system and do that in a systematic way. I dont know about jews but I dont think they do it too.

Fuck me we got a live one!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Well considering the fact we're discussing the British Muslim community I'm not sure what revelvance me never having been to Toronto has?

It makes about as much sense you including me in your little tirade, on a subject regarding British Muslims doesn't it?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

does an influx of schwarma stands really constitute a take over?

quote:

It's painfully obvious you've never spent time in Toronto or you'd rethink your words...

quote:

Originally posted by ResonantDrag does an influx of schwarma stands really constitute a take over?

I have to admit, I love schwarma...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."