quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium You are such a hypocrite. First you say that the drinking water is good safe and clean, and now you follow up with that comment ... prosecution rests.

Wow

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX I just mixed my paper and plastic..... such a rebel....

That's it, I'm calling the Recycling Police on your ass...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

half of the stuff people "recycle" ends up in a landfill. its all bulk commodity. only materials worth enough money to make it worth while are recycled. HDPE, PVC are two of only 3 plastics that are recylceable currently in north america. fiberous materials are still highly recycleable (papers and cardboards) and glass, same with aluminum cans.

but even recycling is decieving. save for glass, most of the above are actually downcycled. ie you cant make a new pop can out of old pop cans. why? the quality and grade of aluminum required to deep draw mould a pop can exceeds that used to build airplanes. the aluminum alloy is specifically designed for its extreem ductility. this is lost when you re melt the pop cans. The recycled pop cans are used to create lower grade aluminums such as T3XXX series

paper is usually downcycled as well as the cost of bleaching can be quite high. paper is recylced into lower grades such as newsprint or cardboard.

as for landfills, current ontario legeslative changes are pushing for conventional "cell" type landfills to convert over to a bioreactor design. typically landfills are designed with a subsurface lechate controll system and a clay cover to minimize water penetration. bioreactors are designed to promote anerobic and aerobic bacterial activity to speed the decomposition process and produce useable byproducts such as methane gas. you dont need a super deep burried dump site to benefit from landfill gas reclamation, sufrace dumps are just as effective. a large bioreactor dump was constructed outside of toronto quite recently, i believe it was in pickering, but i could be wrong. in
ottawa, Carp hill (the ottawa dump) is currently being converted into a bioreactor, 300,000 tones of non native clay is being placed over top of the dump to seal the main cell, on top of htis, clarifier sludge from a waste treatment facility (lemieux island) is being placed on top and finally hydroseeded. the clay along with the root fabric from the hydroseed will ensure a tight seal in order for internal gas pressures to build to the point where gas extraction is feasible (10-15 years). the only shitty part of that whole plan is that the people living in carp now have to enjoy the pungent aroma of partially digested clarifier sludge being spread over the massive dump site. clarifier sludge, for those of you who dont already know, is the solid waste byproduct of sewage treatment plants. AKA poopy

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

Sometimes, recycling programs work too well.

Someone told me that the LCBO's (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) bottle return program is working so well that they don't have the facilities to keep up with the returns....

It's a nice problem to have mind you, but you'd think if you're going to promote such an idea you'd be ready for it...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium You are such a hypocrite. First you say that the drinking water is good safe and clean, and now you follow up with that comment ... prosecution rests. I didnt say give up. I just know that are cleaner and more efficient methods available at hand which will not be implemented because its financially and economically not feasable. While we dont realize that ignoring the issues results in serious environmental damage. There's no end in sight to the continuing campaign of the destruction of the resources of this planet, I mean, they did studies at lake on Geneva and found all kinds of chemicals they never expected to even see (and not from local areas). One day we'll be wearing radiation suits and depending on chemicals to provide clean food because the environment is cotinuously getting polluted.

lol.

Where do you think these scary chemicals come from?

(Earth)

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail lol. Where do you think these scary chemicals come from? (Earth)

Is mercury, chlorine, fluoride regularly found in water in nature? NO! those are toxic elements that actually kill all living beings that come in contact with that water. THATS NOT NATURAL. There's a big difference between where the chemicals come from (they dont come from water), and what they are used for. Actually, everything that we use COMES FROM Earth, so what? Doesnt mean that if we decide to re-arrange or change something, its how its supposed to be. Its not natural. Even the processed water that is released back into the environment is usually treated with chlorine, fluoride, etc. that kills life. Not just damaging us over time, but water is the main component of ALL LIFE. And so just imagine if ALL freshwater was chlorinated or fluoridized. It will kill most of living beings, especially the smaller creatures. So dont ask stupid questions, please.

On the other hand, colonelcrisp has made an impressive post (for once). I have only started 2 weeks ago my semester so I still have a long way to go with recycling, but we have already covered some of the stuff he mentioned. Very good description. He confirms that recycling typically does more harm and is very ineffective. So therefore, referring back to my original post, the emphasis should be to decrease the amount of materials i.e. packaging, more efficient use of resources, etc. which will have a much better effect that recycling on the environment.

So far noone has even commented on the fact that I mentioned that EVERYTHING around you that is human made will mostly be in garbage within 100 years. Thats a lot of stuff. And will require LOTS of landfills, lots of space ... and even with the best landfill designs and safety it will probably just overwhelm the system and the environment.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Is mercury, chlorine, fluoride regularly found in water in nature? NO! those are toxic elements that actually kill all living beings that come in contact with that water. THATS NOT NATURAL. There's a big difference between where the chemicals come from (they dont come from water), and what they are used for. Actually, everything that we use COMES FROM Earth, so what? Doesnt mean that if we decide to re-arrange or change something, its how its supposed to be. Its not natural. Even the processed water that is released back into the environment is usually treated with chlorine, fluoride, etc. that kills life. Not just damaging us over time, but water is the main component of ALL LIFE. And so just imagine if ALL freshwater was chlorinated or fluoridized. It will kill most of living beings, especially the smaller creatures. So dont ask stupid questions, please. On the other hand, colonelcrisp has made an impressive post (for once). I have only started 2 weeks ago my semester so I still have a long way to go with recycling, but we have already covered some of the stuff he mentioned. Very good description. He confirms that recycling typically does more harm and is very ineffective. So therefore, referring back to my original post, the emphasis should be to decrease the amount of materials i.e. packaging, more efficient use of resources, etc. which will have a much better effect that recycling on the environment. So far noone has even commented on the fact that I mentioned that EVERYTHING around you that is human made will mostly be in garbage within 100 years. Thats a lot of stuff. And will require LOTS of landfills, lots of space ... and even with the best landfill designs and safety it will probably just overwhelm the system and the environment.

effluent from water treatment facilities is not treated with chlorine or fluorine. in fact the treatment process actually removes the chlorine and fluorine from the water. Wastewater treatment is made up of two processes, settling and anaerobic and aerobic digestion. the settling or clarifying of the waste water separates the clarified liquid from the solids (sludge) the sludge is then processed by a anaerobic digestor where bacteria breaks downt he solid waste under low oxygenation conditions. the clarified liquids are processed in aeration tanks to promote aerobic digestion (oxygen loving bacteria) this is where the process differes between plants. the old method was this clarified liquid was passed into a secondary clarifier where the the aerobic bacteria and the particles they digested are settled out of the liquid as theya re no longer being fed a constant oxygen supply by the aeration tank. this clarified liquid is then sampled and released back in to the environment through a series of carbon and sand filters. Now a days however, newer plants are employing ultraviolet technology in place of secondary clarification. the effluent passes through a series of ultra high intensity ultraviolet light sources that effectively kills 99.99% of all bacteria in the effluent stream. this then passes through the sand and carbon filters and finally into the environment. periodic tests downstream of the effluent relase pipe are sampled to test for colifom bacteria levels, this ensures the treatment process is working.

chlorine and fluorine are only added to potable water not as a step in waste water treatment. aeration actually removes these chemicals from teh water stream.

further to my above statement about recylcing, the best recycling program to date was put together by brewers retail in canada when they pushed for the long neck bottle design as a beer standard. beer bottles have an amazing return rate, most of them cycle 5 or 6 times through the system before they are melted down or replaced. the only problem recently is with beer companies producing proprietary bottles as aprt of their marketing strategy. for instance, corona, heinikken, stella artois, guiness, hoegaarden, grolsh(sp) and many other premium brands, these bottles are not interchangeable with the domestics and are harder to encorporate into a recycling program as only bottles from that particular company can be used for re processing.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp chlorine and fluorine are only added to potable water not as a step in waste water treatment. aeration actually removes these chemicals from teh water stream.

Wrong. Aerobic and Anaerobic treatment of waste does not remove all the pathogens and bacteria. It helps biodegrade waste quicker by introducing those agents to the waste and a consistent supply of oxygen (for aerobic) to break the wastes down. Surely there is a system to break the wastes naturally, but thats not enough. Not all harmful bacteria is destroyed.


Unless you think professors are wrong, because my solid waste management professor actually worked for 15 years at the Hamilton's government location below the Skyway Bridge ;-) I am actually going there as part of my class to study their systems ;-)


Examples of chemical reagents used in wastewater treatment include oxidizing agents (chlorine, chlorine-dioxide, hypochlorite, ozone, etc.), strong acids and alkalis, sedimentation or flotation aids, etc.


Its common knowledge about chlorination of wastewater, and Hamilton's wastewater treatment facility is no different. Here's couple random links:

quote:

Wastewater leaving wastewater treatment plants is often treated with chlorine before being released into the environment. Therefore, besides contaminating water resources with feces, the act of defecating into water often ultimately contributes to the contamination of water resources with chlorine. There's no doubt that our nation's sewage treatment systems are polluting our drinking water sources with pathogens. As a result, chlorine is also being used to disinfect the water we drink as well as to disinfect discharges from wastewater treatment facilities. It is estimated that 79% of the US population is exposed to chlorine.24 According to a 1992 study, chlorine is added to 75% of the nation's drinking water and is linked to cancer. The results of the study suggested that at least 4,200 cases of bladder cancer and 6,500 cases of rectal cancer each year in the US are associated with consumption of chlorinated drinking water.25 This association is strongest in people who have been drinking chlorinated water for more than fifteen years.26

http://weblife.org/humanure/chapter5_8.html


http://www.ccmua.org/winslow.html


http://www.ilo.org/public/english/p...er_wastewtr.htm

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Wrong. Aerobic and Anaerobic treatment of waste does not remove all the pathogens and bacteria. It helps biodegrade waste quicker by introducing those agents to the waste and a consistent supply of oxygen (for aerobic) to break the wastes down. Surely there is a system to break the wastes naturally, but thats not enough. Not all harmful bacteria is destroyed. Unless you think professors are wrong, because my solid waste management professor actually worked for 15 years at the Hamilton's government location below the Skyway Bridge ;-) I am actually going there as part of my class to study their systems ;-) Examples of chemical reagents used in wastewater treatment include oxidizing agents (chlorine, chlorine-dioxide, hypochlorite, ozone, etc.), strong acids and alkalis, sedimentation or flotation aids, etc. Its common knowledge about chlorination of wastewater, and Hamilton's wastewater treatment facility is no different. Here's couple random links: http://weblife.org/humanure/chapter5_8.html http://www.ccmua.org/winslow.html http://www.ilo.org/public/english/p...er_wastewtr.htm

I was not aware that hamilton was using chlorination in their effluent stream. at lemieux island in ottawa they use a UV treatment system. many municipalities do not treat wastewater effluent, in canada anyways. Hamilton is now the first municipality i have heard of that does this.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby It's pretty straightforward: - evaporate and recondense - run through sand and activated carbon (aka charcoal) - add chemicals - drink

THC doesn't dissolve in water .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller