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Originally posted by CHRles Fundamental Christians to that extent George Smiley points out can be counted to be at a few dozen at best. Moslim fundamentalists make up parge percentages of certain countries.

I take "fundamentalists" to mean those who interpret the Bible (or whatever) literally and into that group go all the evangelical protestants (and probably a good number of Jews and Catholic equivelants). According to one source (forget which but could dig it out if need be) the number is estimated to be between 25% of 30% of the population of America! So altho the number of religious Mormon fundies may be insignificant, the number of right-wing Christian fundies are certainly significant and run completely counter to your comparision where you say fundamentalists make up a large part of Muslim populations (implying the same was not true of America)

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As has been rightfully pointed out, religious extremist in the US or Europe, regardless of faith, are prosecuted. The same is not true for many countries in the developing world.

Wrong. Muslim religious extremists are prosecuted in Europe and America, but not all religious extremists are prosecuted (or even persecuted) as proved by the fact your nation elected a hard core religious fundamentalist to be their President (and some 70 odd million evangelicals who roam free)

You are also wrong about your claim that developing nations do not target religious (your talking about Muslim) extremists because they do to a MUCH greater extent than Western countries - Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, etc etc, all target Islamic extremists and very often committs horrible acts such as what Syria did against the Muslim Brotherhood there. In fact, I keep trying to explain this to people on here but I guess your government got there first, but Islamic extremists came into existance because of oppressive Arab states, nothing more, nothing less.

But anyway, this is not a Muslim bashing thread, it's a Christian bashing thread!

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r As true as that may be regarding the constitution, that still doesn't take away the fact many of them were.

Probably quite true.

OTOH, I'm sure many of them believe blue is their favorite color, just like me. Or perhaps they believe lasagna is their favorite meal, just like me.

Yet for some reason I don't seem to find any blue or spaghetti with meatballs undertones in our government anywhere. Perhaps they made it a point to keep certain beliefs out of government, especially those particular beliefs like religious fundamentalism to which they were directly running away from in England.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Probably quite true. OTOH, I'm sure many of them believe blue is their favorite color, just like me. Or perhaps they believe lasagna is their favorite meal, just like me. Yet for some reason I don't seem to find any blue or spaghetti with meatballs undertones in our government anywhere. Perhaps they made it a point to keep certain beliefs out of government, especially those particular beliefs like religious fundamentalism to which they were directly running away from in England.

I thought they were "running away" from England cos they were fundamenatlist?

Oh and religious beliefs effect your policy decisions, food preferences don't...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r America, from the beginning, was built on religious fundamentalism - agree?

also weed and black women......
I really do not think that our founding fathers used religion to base on. By all accounts the founding fathers were weary of religion:

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I have examined all the known superstitions of the World, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world . . . . The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind . . . to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ. Thomas Jefferson

T.J hit the nail on the head.

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Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. Thomas Jefferson

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I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. Thomas Paine

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When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one. Benjamin Franklin

Those quotes suggest that our Founding Fathers were skeptical of organized religion and felt there was no place in our government for any specific religion.

Last edited by LazFX on Sep-27-2007 at 12:59

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Originally posted by George Smiley Wrong. Muslim religious extremists are prosecuted in Europe and America, but not all religious extremists are prosecuted (or even persecuted) as proved by the fact your nation elected a hard core religious fundamentalist to be their President (and some 70 odd million evangelicals who roam free)

Actually, you are wrong..... Bush is not a hard core Christian fundie.... far from it.

and if your anti-american stance was even a tenth of what you think you know, you would agree with me.

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Originally posted by LazFX Actually, you are wrong..... Bush is not a hard core Christian fundie.... far from it. and if your anti-american stance was even a tenth of what you think you know, you would agree with me.

My anti-American stance?

And if you want me to agree with you then perhaps you should explain?

Because as far as I'm concerned, invading a country because a voice in your head told you to is pretty fundamentalist, tho of course I stand to be corrected if you disagree...

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Originally posted by George Smiley I thought they were "running away" from England cos they were fundamenatlist?

Then you're wrong. Many of the first settlers on the mayflower and afterwards came here b/c they werent Catholic, they belonged to a different Christian denomination, but not necessarily a more extreme one.

Again, your definition of religious fundamentalism is different from what religious fundamentalism really is. Furthermore you're very out of touch with who the overwhelming majority of the American people are.

Seriously, Christians in this country encouraging raping women? Are you for real? Is that how Christians are in England where you live or something? Or are you just trying to relate Moslim fundamentals to so called Christian ones?

In the developing countries mentioned there seems to be a sense of no one monitoring religious fundamentalism, and its sometimes encouraged, ESPECIALLY in countries like Iran. Much moreso then in Egypt, where thankfuly the Muslim Brotherhood is prosecuted.

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Originally posted by George Smiley My anti-American stance?

Yeah, your obvious anti-American stance.

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Originally posted by CHRles Then you're wrong. Many of the first settlers on the mayflower and afterwards came here b/c they werent Catholic, they belonged to a different Christian denomination, but not necessarily a more extreme one.

You mean they weren't Church of England, which is protestant, not catholic.

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Again, your definition of religious fundamentalism is different from what religious fundamentalism really is. Furthermore you're very out of touch with who the overwhelming majority of the American people are.

And what is your definition of "fundamentalism"? As far as I am concerned it is a literal interpretation of the Bible. Evangelicals literally interpret the Bible therefore they are fundamentalist. 30% of Americans are Evangelical, therefore 30% of Americans are religious fundamentalists. I also consider taking a nation to war because "God told me to" a characteristic of religious fundamentalism...

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Seriously, Christians in this country encouraging raping women? Are you for real? Is that how Christians are in England where you live or something? Or are you just trying to relate Moslim fundamentals to so called Christian ones?

I am in no way saying the actions of this Mormon sect are representative of Christians or Americans, but the fact is, they are Christian and encouraged the rape of a 14 year old girl, so you can't tell me it doesn't happen.

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In the developing countries mentioned there seems to be a sense of no one monitoring religious fundamentalism, and its sometimes encouraged, ESPECIALLY in countries like Iran. Much moreso then in Egypt, where thankfuly the Muslim Brotherhood is prosecuted.

There you go again supporting the causes of terrorism

Will you please get it through your head that you have no knowledge whatsoever of the Middle East so please don't make stupid assumptions.

But...seeing as you support the prosecution of religious fundamentalists, do you agree that George Bush should be deposed as President for being a religious fundamentalist (a fucking dangerous one at that - way more dangerous than bin Laden) and also that all Evangelicals should be thrown in prison for being religious fundamentalists?

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Originally posted by CHRles Yeah, your obvious anti-American stance.

But I am arguing against religious fundamentalism, not ALL of America (whatever that means anyway)