quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover I am not a neocon If we withdraw, is Iraq going to be a better place? Are the insurgents going to be peaceful and promoted stability and unity? Come on man you know better than that.

Before the US invasion, Iraq was albeit poor, but was a functioning, sovereign state. People at least had electricity, and water, and didn't have to fear roving bands of insurgents, suicide bombers, collateral destruction from coalition forces, snipers, and a deterioration of social services, and infrastructure. What good has come from occupying a sovereign state? NONE.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r uh...he requested it and it was met with a big fat goose egg of support from the NYPD... (Not to mention the place would go ballistic). >>Source<<

ya I mean we wouldnt want a guy like hitler to visit ground zero god for bid.

___________________
Mystic Mind - DJ Mixes
http://soundcloud.com/mystic-mind

Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/DJMysticMind

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer ya I mean we wouldnt want a guy like hitler to visit ground zero god for bid.

Don't hate the truth

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Before the US invasion, Iraq was albeit poor, but was a functioning, sovereign state. People at least had electricity, and water, and didn't have to fear roving bands of insurgents, suicide bombers, collateral destruction from coalition forces, snipers, and a deterioration of social services, and infrastructure. What good has come from occupying a sovereign state? NONE.

Couldnt agree more.


funny how as soon as you bring up the facts,some will come and say "oh Saddam was a bad dictator etc".The reality is though that in some of parts of this world only a dictatorship like regime can hold a country together and Iraq is one of them.

___________________
Mystic Mind - DJ Mixes
http://soundcloud.com/mystic-mind

Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/DJMysticMind

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Don't hate the truth

___________________
Mystic Mind - DJ Mixes
http://soundcloud.com/mystic-mind

Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/DJMysticMind

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer

I hope you're laughing at your own fault, cause you're right, they're funny!

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I hope you're laughing at your own fault, cause you're right, they're funny!

na man Iam laughing right at you for making unbelievable remarks like that.Thats why I can never take you seriously.I mean come on comparing Ahmadinejad to Hitler is just lame and makes you look like an idiot.

___________________
Mystic Mind - DJ Mixes
http://soundcloud.com/mystic-mind

Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/DJMysticMind

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer na man Iam laughing right at you for making unbelievable remarks like that.Thats why I can never take you seriously.I mean come on comparing Ahmadinejad to Hitler is just lame and makes you look like an idiot.

Sorry, where did I type 'Hitler' again?

I simply pointed out you were wrong.
If you don't like that, then I suggest you stop typing up things that just fly into your head before you do.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

The burden of proof is on the United States. Invading on the chance that there might be a weapons program.... well, we already tried that and it isn't working very well.

And beyond that, if the United States uses force as a last resort, we'd better be damn sure that we've expired our other options. And as of yet, we've barely even tried them.

Escalation induces escalation. At this point, if we end up going to war with Iran, a large chunk of the blame has to fall at the front door of Number One Observatory Circle (aka Dick Cheney's address).

___________________

Lets not go back to the whole thing of why the US invaded Iraq.

I admit it from the get go this Admin has mismanaged the war. Now with our new Defense Min and Gen. Patreus, all analyst agree that we are going in the right direction.

Misteropus,

Iran Nuclear intelligence is very limited to the public. God knows what the hell Iran is doing. But let me just add, the problem here is not only to gather the most intelligence we can. But that Iran has made it clear, and reaffirmed it in the UN that these issue it a closed case with the Intl community.

It just tells you that Iran will continue to defy the Intl community. They have rejected programs laid out by the UN to have a true peaceful similar program to be utilized for "peaceful purposes"

When you have a Iranian govt with these type of attitude, defying the whole world how can we possibly trust them to be responsible with a nuclear weapon. The question here is not wether Iran should have the right to have such program but is Iran responsible or serious enough to have one. Can the ME and the world be a safer place if Iran reaches that capability? Would this cause an arm race in the ME?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover Lets not go back to the whole thing of why the US invaded Iraq.

We're not. I'm merely drawing parallels to the logic used to condone the use of violence in that case with your logic condoning the use of violence in this case.

quote:

I admit it from the get go this Admin has mismanaged the war. Now with our new Defense Min and Gen. Patreus, all analyst agree that we are going in the right direction.

Not only was it mismanaged, but it was began for reasons not immediately recognizable to the American public. In other words, it was sold on faulty and cooked information. Furthermore, it is outrageous to even suggest that all analysts agree with the current affairs in Iraq. General Petraeus is an overwhelmingly divisive figure in Washington right now. His testimony at Congress was filled with sweeping generalizations and political rhetoric. Even Chuck Hagel, John Warner, and Richard Lugar, three of the most respected Republicans in the US Senate, are highly suspicious of the US' continued presence in Iraq.

quote:

Misteropus, Iran Nuclear intelligence is very limited to the public. God knows what the hell Iran is doing. But let me just add, the problem here is not only to gather the most intelligence we can. But that Iran has made it clear, and reaffirmed it in the UN that these issue it a closed case with the Intl community.

The issue of pursuing nuclear technology for civilian purposes, yes. He made no mention of weapons persay. Also, just because we don't know what is going on in a country gives us no right to sabre-rattle. Sovereignty implies that a state has complete control over the happenings within its own geographical territory. Unless the United States suddenly wants to renege on the principles of Westphalia, then we have to stop violating sovereignty around the world and deal with local actors, however abhorrent they may be.

quote:

It just tells you that Iran will continue to defy the Intl community. They have rejected programs laid out by the UN to have a true peaceful similar program to be utilized for "peaceful purposes" When you have a Iranian govt with these type of attitude, defying the whole world how can we possibly trust them to be responsible with a nuclear weapon. The question here is not wether Iran should have the right to have such program but is Iran responsible or serious enough to have one. Can the ME and the world be a safer place if Iran reaches that capability? Would this cause an arm race in the ME?

There's already an arms race in the Middle East. Israel has nukes, and Israel is perceived to be security threat #1 to a lot of Middle Eastern states.

How can you seriously argue at this point that Iran is creating instability in the Middle East? The United States has created the most violently unstable situation in the world, and it's right on Iran's doorstep. Of course they aren't going to trust us to have the interests of the Iranian people in mind! Iran feels increasingly isolated, like it is the target of some worldwide plan for its extermination (which, in the minds of people like you and Dick Cheney could potentially be a goal). It is an extremely natural response for them to lash out like a ferret in a corner, and the best way to ensure that we stop messing with them is to get a nuclear capacity like Pakistan or North Korea. It certainly worked for them. So how do we circumvent their necessity for nukes? Stop messing with them and let them come out of the corner if they will. Engage them diplomatically and see what, if any, common ground we might be able to find.

___________________