quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Seems logical. Although, Logic has done something very clever, they have halfed the price of Logic and replaced USB dongle with a serial number. Making it much more affordable for all customers, I think many will move to Logic now.

Does windows version keeps being some versions behind from Mac? I would be glad to try out Logic if both O.S. would be equal concerning versions.

Kopi =o.

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i've noticed people who say to switch to logic also say to switch to mac.

the latter suggestion rules out my consideration of the former.

quote:

Originally posted by kopi_luwak Does windows version keeps being some versions behind from Mac? I would be glad to try out Logic if both O.S. would be equal concerning versions. Kopi =o.

One word: Apple. They bought Logic from Emagic after version 5.5 or something like that. After that, no update for pc.

to add:

chris lake - ableton
sebastien leger - ableton
deadmau5 - ableton

stonebridge - logic
BT - logic


i can go on... really though, who cares because all audio engines very a bit but if you can make the sound you want out of that audio engine(which i think is possible in ANY daw) then who cares, go with what you're comfortable with

here is something interesting..

pasted this from another forum...


Being such a tired and ridiculous topic that seems to come up every 11 minutes or so, I wanted to be able to point to a link where not only would it be proven that this whole summing issue is nonsense, but where you could prove it to YOURSELF!

This actually wasn't as easy as I had imagined it would be, and there are still a few little kinks to work out.

Here are the test files to download, along with the results:

http://pipelineaudio.net/samples/summing%20test.zip

Here is how it works:

For the "Straight Test"

1. Place all three files from the "test files" folder in your project
2. Set project for 44khz
3. Turn dither off if possible
4. Render to 24 bit 44khz wave file





For the "faders down 6 master up 6 Test"

1. Place all three files from the "test files" folder in your project
2. Set project for 44khz
3. Turn all three channel faders down to -6dB
4. Set master to +6dB
5. Turn dither off if possible
6. Render to 24 bit 44khz wave file



Now, assuming that an app isn't BROKEN, every single one of these files should be identical

err wait, some of the tinfoil hat crowd claims some apps have magic pixie dust summing math that makes the sound have more SOAR, so I included the outputs just in case there were sonic differences, and they could claim they abx tested the files and found one "better" than another - yes and Im waiting for a certain Nigerian Ambassador to transfer funds into my bank account, since you know, I sent him the transfer fee.....


So, so far as you shall see, in the unity gain test we have:

REAPER, Podium, Vegas, Pro Tools, Cubase, Nuendo, SAW, Samplitude, SONAR and Logic 8

You already know the answer: Samplitude and SAW have magical supermixer properties that will make hit producing euphonanity over all these other apps right?

Wrong, every one of these is a DEAD, MINUS INFINITY, null

Given the same input, all these apps produce the same output...they sound EXACTLY the same. Unless you can posit a theory of how identical files could sound different, I think its time to start worrying about mic positioning, control room accoustics, or hey, the talent of the "talent", you know, things that might actually matter

But wait, there's more....just in case some of these apps might be doing things a little differently, we did a test of turning down the channel fader by 6dB, turning UP the master fader by 6dB and rendering. I mean, If there IS any magic pixie dust sprinkled in the code somewhere, its gotta show in the level changes, where else could it be?

Unless the app is somehow screwed up, it should still null with the unity gain files right?

well....here's where things got a little interesting

We KNOW 100% that pan laws arent an issue here, or the unity gain renders would not have nulled

so, Vegas, SONAR, REAPER, and Pro Tools nulled with the unity gain files exactly as they should.

SAW did not - what seems to be a slight error in SAW's math resulted in a render which was 0.00451dB too quiet. When this gain was added back in, the file nulled as expected - note to the Shakti Stone arrangers out there, it still didnt make a different sounding file, just a quieter one that sounded exactly the same as the others once the level error was corrected

Logic 8 also, did not render correctly, it resulted in a file which was 0.06dB too loud. Again, turning down the file to the correct level resulted in a file which nulled to -infinity with the rest of the files.

Cubase/Nuendo - here is the weirdest one. These files did not null with the others. The level was correct, we know the pan law was correct, I just dont have an explanation for why these didn't render correctly.

But before you send that check to Sylvia Browne, these nulled to -99dB, HARDLY anything to write home about






Now, it is QUITE possible there was some pilot error involved so I heartily invite you to download the tests yourself, and have at it.

For all practical purposes, I consider this summing nonsense dead and buried.

Thank you VERY much to everyone who participated in making this test possible

its hilarious to see you guys going all over saying daws sound different from eachother, while many of you go on claiming analog is not necessary, and that you can make all the same shit with any ol vst.

or that using an 808 kick sample sounds the same as a kick sequence from an actual 808.

use your ears, not blogger gossip articles.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Ferry Corsten uses Cubase Tiesto uses Cubase Lange uses Cubase MIKE uses Logic Above & Beyond uses Logic Airwave uses Ableton Armin uses Logic, Ableton. Astral Projection uses Cubase. etc... Each program has individually their own pros a and cons. Thats not true, in regards of Dance Music, if you are talking pop, rock.. commercial music.. then yes, probably.

You should probably add me to that list really...

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quote:

Originally posted by I<3acid its hilarious to see you guys going all over saying daws sound different from eachother, while many of you go on claiming analog is not necessary, and that you can make all the same shit with any ol vst. or that using an 808 kick sample sounds the same as a kick sequence from an actual 808. use your ears, not blogger gossip articles.

I hope this isn't directed at me? I just found this and posted for whoever feels like reading this, and they can draw their own conclusions from that..

quote:

Originally posted by DJDIRTY I hope this isn't directed at me? I just found this and posted for whoever feels like reading this, and they can draw their own conclusions from that..

no no, not at all. to be honest, i don't even understand half of that post.

im just pointing out that to me it seems like so many people get fucked up over tiny differences in daws, while at the same time they are able to make very generalized statements about things that are much more obvious to the ears, and important to the music.

i mean what autechre is like probably the most technical/textural popular artists out there, and they used a lot of ghetto hardware and recorded in 16 bit for how long? if people make good music the drawbacks and imperfections of their tools dont really stand in their way it seems...if anything it adds to it.

i guess if you're really content with what you're putting into your daw, you can worry about that stuff...

that said, i obviously don't fully understand all these software technicalities, so maybe i'm just ignorant, and can't hear the difference...doesnt matter cuz i still am not happy with what goes into the daw.

Last edited by I<3acid on Oct-02-2007 at 23:49

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Ferry Corsten uses Cubase Tiesto uses Cubase Lange uses Cubase MIKE uses Logic Above & Beyond uses Logic Airwave uses Ableton Armin uses Logic, Ableton. Astral Projection uses Cubase. etc...

i think the real question is, what does lordofbass use?

quote:

Originally posted by DJDIRTY here is something interesting.. pasted this from another forum... Being such a tired and ridiculous topic that seems to come up every 11 minutes or so, I wanted to be able to point to a link where not only would it be proven that this whole summing issue is nonsense, but where you could prove it to YOURSELF! This actually wasn't as easy as I had imagined it would be, and there are still a few little kinks to work out. Here are the test files to download, along with the results: http://pipelineaudio.net/samples/summing%20test.zip Here is how it works: For the "Straight Test" 1. Place all three files from the "test files" folder in your project 2. Set project for 44khz 3. Turn dither off if possible 4. Render to 24 bit 44khz wave file For the "faders down 6 master up 6 Test" 1. Place all three files from the "test files" folder in your project 2. Set project for 44khz 3. Turn all three channel faders down to -6dB 4. Set master to +6dB 5. Turn dither off if possible 6. Render to 24 bit 44khz wave file Now, assuming that an app isn't BROKEN, every single one of these files should be identical err wait, some of the tinfoil hat crowd claims some apps have magic pixie dust summing math that makes the sound have more SOAR, so I included the outputs just in case there were sonic differences, and they could claim they abx tested the files and found one "better" than another - yes and Im waiting for a certain Nigerian Ambassador to transfer funds into my bank account, since you know, I sent him the transfer fee..... So, so far as you shall see, in the unity gain test we have: REAPER, Podium, Vegas, Pro Tools, Cubase, Nuendo, SAW, Samplitude, SONAR and Logic 8 You already know the answer: Samplitude and SAW have magical supermixer properties that will make hit producing euphonanity over all these other apps right? Wrong, every one of these is a DEAD, MINUS INFINITY, null Given the same input, all these apps produce the same output...they sound EXACTLY the same. Unless you can posit a theory of how identical files could sound different, I think its time to start worrying about mic positioning, control room accoustics, or hey, the talent of the "talent", you know, things that might actually matter But wait, there's more....just in case some of these apps might be doing things a little differently, we did a test of turning down the channel fader by 6dB, turning UP the master fader by 6dB and rendering. I mean, If there IS any magic pixie dust sprinkled in the code somewhere, its gotta show in the level changes, where else could it be? Unless the app is somehow screwed up, it should still null with the unity gain files right? well....here's where things got a little interesting We KNOW 100% that pan laws arent an issue here, or the unity gain renders would not have nulled so, Vegas, SONAR, REAPER, and Pro Tools nulled with the unity gain files exactly as they should. SAW did not - what seems to be a slight error in SAW's math resulted in a render which was 0.00451dB too quiet. When this gain was added back in, the file nulled as expected - note to the Shakti Stone arrangers out there, it still didnt make a different sounding file, just a quieter one that sounded exactly the same as the others once the level error was corrected Logic 8 also, did not render correctly, it resulted in a file which was 0.06dB too loud. Again, turning down the file to the correct level resulted in a file which nulled to -infinity with the rest of the files. Cubase/Nuendo - here is the weirdest one. These files did not null with the others. The level was correct, we know the pan law was correct, I just dont have an explanation for why these didn't render correctly. But before you send that check to Sylvia Browne, these nulled to -99dB, HARDLY anything to write home about Now, it is QUITE possible there was some pilot error involved so I heartily invite you to download the tests yourself, and have at it. For all practical purposes, I consider this summing nonsense dead and buried. Thank you VERY much to everyone who participated in making this test possible

HAHA That is awsome!

This topic is stupid. What does it matter who uses what? You should be asking, how they use what they have.

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quote:

Originally posted by RickyM You should probably add me to that list really...

You probably should get some glasses, and read the post again.

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