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Originally posted by Krypton Funny you say that.. We're currently OCCUPYING two countries and interfering in THEIR problems. Double logic kills..

so who's better?

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Originally posted by CHRles Cyrus, you might be a little confused with history. Native Americans were pushed back into reservations even 100 years ago. Read about states like Oklahoma, which only became a state exactly 100 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma Or what about the India-Pakistan conflict a few decades later? Where a mass migration between Indians and Pakistanis was pretty much forced? That took on a dimension of tens of millions of people. Or you might want to study up about numerous countries in Africa where you have different tribes that ended up being split into 2-3 countries? Or about what happened in the Soviet Union where different ethnicites were moved around. As for the status Israel, it was put to a vote at the UN since the UK had a mandate over it, and was getting ready to leave the area. So the situation was adressed in the UN. Now then, as you stated, the UN originally alotted half the land of Israel to the Jews. This was accepted by the Jews, but not by the other side. A war ensued between Israel and ALL of its neighbors. After World War II and the holocaust the Arab states greatly underestimated the Jews. They fought hard to defend their newfound freedom, and they won. If you want to talk about more recent events that the UN hasnt approved why don't you talk about Turkey's invasion of Cyprus? Or Iraqs invasion of Kuwait? I wasnt going to get into this but since you brought it up...Christians seem to have no problem living in Israel. Lebanon on other hand is a bit of a sore topic since in the first half of the 20th century they were the majority there. This is due to a couple of things: The Levant region was always populated with some Christians going back to pretty much the time of Christ (although Jesus himself was a Jew). The second wave of Christianity in the Middle East happened during the crusades. The third wave was only a couple of hundreds of years ago when Christian missionaries made their way to the region.

If there were 6 million natives forced into mexico or canada after their province was alotted to lets say China...then i think there would be a very serious debate. The scenario you gave is quite different and almost trivial compared to the Palesitinian refugee crisis.

Also.. the UN was a 2 year old organization that was not experienced enough to handle this task that they empowered themselves on. ALso,, most of the world was not even in the UN by that time the "decision" was made to partition that land.

IF the UN decided to partition the West bank and Gaza strip and alot 56% more of what is left of Palestine.. to ISrael.. is that right???

IS IT THE UN'S LAND TO PARTITION THE WEST BANK AND GAZA???

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Last edited by Cyrus King on Oct-07-2007 at 21:33

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Originally posted by Q5echo so who's better?

Does it matter?

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by venomX Does it matter?

to me, yes. immencely

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Originally posted by Q5echo so who's better?

Because we're better, we're allowed to occupy sovereign countries?

Why don't we take the high ground, and stop acting like imperialistic tools, and fucking talk to our "enemies". If they violate another nation's sovereigty (which Iran is not doing), then militarily take care of them. Why we don't follow this rule is beyond me, but is the central point in foreign policy with neocons. Preemption.

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What countries are we invading? The US has liberated Afghanistan from the Taliban occupation, and liberated Iaq from superstar oppressor Sadam Hussein.

Appearantly other countries also see the US as a liberator on the issue of Iraq, like Azerbaijan:
http://www.meforum.org/article/987

Interesting to note that while the population of Azerbaijan hovers around 10 million, there are twice as many Azeris living in Iran...
Like Turkey, Azerbaijan is overwhelmingly Muslim, and has a democratic political system.

I guess when countries like Iran talk about growing Israeli presence and influence in the region this is who they're referring to. So far it's worked to Israel, Turkey, and America's advantage as far as oil goes, and has tremendously bolstered the Azerian economy.

Last edited by CHRles on Oct-08-2007 at 00:22

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Originally posted by Krypton If they violate another nation's sovereigty (which Iran is not doing),

uhhh what? you ever heard of a little sovereign country called Lebanon? do you know how many secular politicians have been assasinated by car-bomb in this year alone by Iran's proxy armies?

get a clue kid. learn some stuff. you have a long way to go.

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Originally posted by Krypton Because we're better, we're allowed to occupy sovereign countries?

yes. with a little help from our freinds.

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Originally posted by Q5echo uhhh what? you ever heard of a little sovereign country called Lebanon? do you know how many secular politicians have been assasinated by car-bomb in this year alone by Iran's proxy armies?

Mind your own business and let them deal with their problems.Is that so hard for your tiny littl brain to understand?

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Originally posted by CHRles What countries are we invading? The US has liberated Afghanistan from the Taliban occupation, and liberated Iaq from superstar oppressor Sadam Hussein. Appearantly other countries also see the US as a liberator on the issue of Iraq, like Azerbaijan: http://www.meforum.org/article/987 Interesting to note that while the population of Azerbaijan hovers around 10 million, there are twice as many Azeris living in Iran... Like Turkey, Azerbaijan is overwhelmingly Muslim, and has a democratic political system. I guess when countries like Iran talk about growing Israeli presence and influence in the region this is who they're referring to. So far it's worked to Israel, Turkey, and America's advantage as far as oil goes, and has tremendously bolstered the Azerian economy.

Oh, so as long as we think we're liberating them, it's ok right? We are the laughing stock of the world right now because of the shit we pulled off in Iraq as CONQUERORS. Liberations are freeing the people from an occupier, not occupying the people!!

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uhhh what? you ever heard of a little sovereign country called Lebanon? do you know how many secular politicians have been assasinated by car-bomb in this year alone by Iran's proxy armies? get a clue kid. learn some stuff. you have a long way to go.

Learn stuff? Just as long as its neocon BULLSHIT right? kid...

Show me the source where you got the information that Iran is directly responsible for assassinations of Lebanese politicians. I'de really love to see it.. Then after you find that, find me the source that says, "Iran now occupying Lebanon"...THANK YOU.

Hezbollah is a grass roots organization of shiite muslims in Lebanon. Who the fuck do you expect them to reach out in support to? America? OF COURSE they're going to get support from shia Iran! And to think the US is innocent of any proxy warfare, are you that naive? I think YOU need to learn "stuff"..

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yes. with a little help from our freinds.

Other than the US and UK, how many combat personnel are in Iraq from other countries? This is a US/UK occupation, but to you, sovereignty don't mean shit, so I completely understand where your coming from. Unfortunately, you don't ever take the time to even try to understand the views contrary to your own. Which of course, mine would be a respect for sovereignty and self-determination. So Q5echo, when is this War on Terror going to end? When is victory going to be declared. Don't you realize this is an unwinnable war. It's like the drug war. To win, you have either kill all the druggies (anti-american muslims), or subjigate the druggies (occupation). But the reality is, you can never kill all the anti-american muslims, you can never subjigate them. They will always fight back, and you can never kill enough of them. This war is a distraction from our true enemy, which is debt-based consumerism with a fiat currency controlled by private individuals. Bravo neocons, bravo...

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I don't know if Iran is beihnd the assasinations in Libya.
A couple of years ago the former Vice President of Syria went on record with a Dubai-based newschannel (which is owned by Saudis) stating that Bashar Assad was responsible for the death of Hariri.

Now I'd like to ask a question about the Palestinians that maybe Cyrus or hardcore trancer can help me out with. The issue with the palestinians is a burning one, and I do see it being resolved over time. Perhaps given enough time even the issue of Jerusalem will be worked out. My question is this: Since the West Bank is already by and large free, autonomous, ruled by palestinians, and has made strides to develop ties with all of its neighbors - why havent larger numbers of palestinians living in refugee camps in Lebanon or Syria migrated there? Even if they are waiting for the issue of right of return to be resolved, why havent they in the interim moved to the West Bank? Or why havent they at least moved to Jordan, where Palestinians are treated as equals (even the queen is of Palestinian origin, although she was born in Kuwait)?